The Ultimate Patient Journey: Dr. Moffet’s Roadmap For Success

[00:00:00] Dr. Moffitt, thanks so much for coming on The GrowOrtho Podcast.

[00:00:03] Hey, Luke, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be back.

[00:00:06] Absolutely. For those listening, watching, maybe they don't know who you are.

[00:00:10] They haven't read your book. Tell us who you are and what you do.

[00:00:14] Yeah. Hi, I'm Dr. David Moffitt.

[00:00:16] I'm a retired dentist.

[00:00:18] I was a dentist for 35 years down in Australia,

[00:00:20] if you're wondering where my accent is from and had my own practice for 28 of those years.

[00:00:27] And after I sold it, I started working for a friend,

[00:00:30] but I developed arthritis in my hands at that same time.

[00:00:34] And so 2017, I chose to clinically retire myself.

[00:00:38] I just couldn't do the dentistry that I was enjoying doing on the patients and it was hurting me.

[00:00:45] And so I had already started transitioning because after selling people were coming to me and saying,

[00:00:50] David, how did you have a good practice?

[00:00:52] Yeah, what did you do? Can you have a look at my practice, at their practice?

[00:00:57] And so practice management seemed like a way of giving back to the profession.

[00:01:02] I write for an Australian publication, Australasian Dental Practice Magazine.

[00:01:07] As you know, Luke, I wrote this book which is still a first off Amazon bestseller

[00:01:13] for 37 months in a row in its category.

[00:01:16] Even Howard Faran asked me how I did that.

[00:01:18] I don't know. I just told it as it was.

[00:01:21] What led you to write that book?

[00:01:24] A friend of mine who's not a dentist had written a book and I just reached out to him.

[00:01:32] He's a sales guy and I said, wow, tell me about your book.

[00:01:37] And the first thing he said to me was, David, you can do this.

[00:01:41] You've got a book in you easy.

[00:01:43] And so we both used a company called Advantage out of South Carolina

[00:01:51] where you actually talk your book.

[00:01:53] So you set your chapters and then they interview you and they put the book together

[00:01:59] because to write a book in a book format that keeps it interesting

[00:02:02] and not just make it war and peace is difficult.

[00:02:05] It's a challenge.

[00:02:07] And so once the book is spoken, then they pass it to you to edit it

[00:02:11] and you spend the exact amount of time, the same amount of time

[00:02:14] in editing it as you did in speaking it.

[00:02:17] I wanted it to be a story of my journey through dentistry of practice ownership

[00:02:21] and into coaching.

[00:02:23] So it's very conversational in my book.

[00:02:25] It's not like, oh, here's the 10 steps to do this and the five steps to do that.

[00:02:29] But at the end of every chapter, if you've gone through with a highlight pen

[00:02:32] and a ballpoint pen, you can probably find somewhere between 60 and 100 tips

[00:02:39] on practice management in that book, in per chapter.

[00:02:43] You had tracked every single touch point for a new patient

[00:02:46] and you had written a process for your team for every single touch point.

[00:02:51] Is, am I remembering this correctly?

[00:02:54] That was the principle of creating the ultimate patient experience

[00:02:56] was that we wanted our practice to be different.

[00:02:59] So how is our practice different?

[00:03:01] It looks at the journey of the patient

[00:03:04] and what the patient sees and experiences, not what we see and experience for the patient.

[00:03:09] When we broke down that in a general dental practice, patients come for three reasons.

[00:03:14] They either come for a consultation, they come for a hygiene visit

[00:03:18] or they come for some form of treatment.

[00:03:20] There are different steps and stages depending on which of those three reasons they come for.

[00:03:26] Some of the stages are identical and so we broke it down

[00:03:30] and then we looked at it from the patient's point of view.

[00:03:33] But once we had the steps, what I then did was I got my team to work out what they did.

[00:03:39] That was what every practice does, what they did, which we believe other practices didn't do but should do.

[00:03:47] What were our above and beyond opportunities, which was premeditated list of things

[00:03:53] that would wow a patient at any step that we could just pull an arrow from our quiver and use

[00:04:01] and the patient would think it was random but we knew that it was our opportunity to do that.

[00:04:05] And also what were our service defects that could happen at each of those steps as well

[00:04:10] and how did we fix those defects, what were our service recovery processes

[00:04:14] which were actually sometimes our service recovery was better than if we hadn't had the defect in the first place.

[00:04:19] But knowing all these things and getting the team to put that together

[00:04:23] and getting them to put it together on an individual basis.

[00:04:26] So one dental assistant would do one stage and then another dental assistant would do another stage.

[00:04:32] So they did them independently and in that process when they brought it to the team meeting

[00:04:38] the other dental assistant go, I didn't know you were doing that in your room

[00:04:41] and the front office would say, I didn't know you guys were doing that down the back

[00:04:45] and we can build on that.

[00:04:49] We can use that if we knew you were doing that we could actually make our job and made our job easier.

[00:04:54] That helped us.

[00:04:55] And so the putting together of the processes was really a fun experience for the team.

[00:05:01] So in and that's what we then started teaching our clients was how to do that

[00:05:06] so that your team own the manual rather than being the gospel according to Moffat

[00:05:11] or the gospel according to some other guru.

[00:05:14] We're going to implement this guy and then we're going to implement this is ours

[00:05:18] and every team has that.

[00:05:20] So when somebody comes to work there they say, here's our manual.

[00:05:23] This is what we've put together.

[00:05:25] Have a read of it.

[00:05:25] The team has power from being part of that process and it was fun for them.

[00:05:32] Like some of our team meetings, you know team members were crying tears of laughter

[00:05:37] at some of the suggestions they were coming up with, you know, really left field

[00:05:41] sort of suggestions for customer service, which was like, wow, that is really good.

[00:05:45] Let's let's use that and that really set us apart because if we don't set our practices apart

[00:05:52] the only way our patients are going to choose us is on price.

[00:05:56] We actually funnel them into the price.

[00:05:58] If we don't give them a better experience, we just funnel them into the price.

[00:06:02] And what are some of the things that you guys saw that were the biggest difference makers

[00:06:08] in terms of experience?

[00:06:10] When we broke down the ultimate patient experience into into what I call

[00:06:13] the five building blocks of the patient journey through the practice.

[00:06:17] So the building block number one is they connect with the practice.

[00:06:19] You know, they either phone or text or go to an online booking.

[00:06:23] You know, that's that process.

[00:06:25] The second is what happens when they arrive?

[00:06:28] The third is what happens between arrival and going to the treatment room.

[00:06:32] The fourth is what happens in the treatment room.

[00:06:34] And the fifth is what happens after the treatment room.

[00:06:37] And then from that we broke down each of the steps in those five building blocks.

[00:06:42] The two most forgotten building blocks in any dental practice are building block number

[00:06:48] two and building block number three, the arrival process and what happens

[00:06:52] while they're waiting to be taken to the treatment room.

[00:06:56] And sometimes you can get a patient who is all excited about coming to you.

[00:07:01] They've had made a good booking.

[00:07:02] But when they get there, they're kind of parked.

[00:07:05] Take a seat won't be too long.

[00:07:06] My hairdresser used to say that just take a seat won't be too long.

[00:07:09] And I'm going, geez, that's what we're saying.

[00:07:10] That's we got to do better than that.

[00:07:12] So how did we up that greeting?

[00:07:14] How do we then employ the concierge?

[00:07:17] Who help people to converse with each other in, you know, everybody's there waiting

[00:07:23] to see the hygienist or another associate dentist.

[00:07:27] So what do you, you know, in fact, one of my patients was really good at that role.

[00:07:29] She goes, what are you having done?

[00:07:31] What are you, how long have you been coming here?

[00:07:32] And that then saves the patient from falling down that deep chasm of despair while they wait.

[00:07:40] And, you know, they're watching the clock way.

[00:07:41] They're taking so long when they've gone down into that chasm of despair

[00:07:44] and then they come to the treatment room.

[00:07:46] The dentist and the dental assistant have to get them back up to an emotional high

[00:07:51] before they present more treatment options to them.

[00:07:53] And so if we can keep them at this high or this level of pleasantry,

[00:07:59] it makes the job for the dentist much easier.

[00:08:02] It's the old Wizard of Oz story.

[00:08:04] And I experienced this at an ophthalmic surgeon.

[00:08:08] By the time I met the doctor, I was already sure that this was the place for me

[00:08:14] because everybody had been so nice along the way.

[00:08:17] And the Wizard of Oz is exactly the same.

[00:08:19] If, you know, by the time Dorothy meets the Wizard,

[00:08:21] he's the only one who's going to get her back to Kansas.

[00:08:23] Nobody else.

[00:08:25] She's so focused on getting to meet him.

[00:08:28] She doesn't care who he is.

[00:08:29] In fact, she doesn't realize he's just that little old man behind the curtain

[00:08:32] because he's going to get her back to Kansas.

[00:08:34] And so that's what the dentist really has to do is remove themselves from being almighty.

[00:08:40] I've got the biggest degree in the place you pay attention to me to how Tina so good.

[00:08:45] They'll look after you before you come into see me and after you've seen me

[00:08:49] and before you go home, their visit might be three times as long as the treatment time.

[00:08:54] But they love it because they're talking to friends and they have an emotional connection

[00:08:58] with everybody who works there.

[00:09:00] So one of the things you brought up is controlling the state.

[00:09:04] Somebody's state.

[00:09:06] So obviously, you know, somebody could be fearful coming to the dentist.

[00:09:10] This is going to be painful.

[00:09:11] I would imagine a lot of people maybe think about canceling their appointment, leading up to it,

[00:09:16] you know, a day, same day, two days before or when they come in.

[00:09:22] It's not a warm greeting and the guard goes up.

[00:09:26] And so there's things that you can do for that guard to come down

[00:09:30] and you to enhance the person's state.

[00:09:32] You called it, you know, being pleasant.

[00:09:35] I think that's key in any type of customer service, feeling good, making sure that the customer

[00:09:42] feels good and knows they're in the right place.

[00:09:44] You know, and so many, it sounds so simple, but so many businesses miss this.

[00:09:50] It's so easy to do, but it's easy not to do.

[00:09:53] And you're right.

[00:09:53] When they miss it or they neglect to think that when a patient arrives,

[00:09:58] how has their day been before they get there?

[00:10:01] You know, have they had a pleasant day?

[00:10:03] Have they had a traumatic day?

[00:10:05] Are they a minute late because they got held up at work?

[00:10:09] As just as they were walking out the door or, you know, the traffic was bad.

[00:10:14] All these sorts of things that we blame the patient, you know, like a headmaster, don't do it again.

[00:10:20] We don't want the patient to ever feel like they're an interruption to anything else.

[00:10:23] We want the patient to feel like we've been waiting for their phone call for them to walk in the door all day.

[00:10:28] We've been looking forward to seeing them.

[00:10:30] And in fact, we were at an advantage at a dental practice because we know the names of everybody who's coming in and when they're due.

[00:10:37] So we can greet them, you know, especially if it's a one person or a two person practice.

[00:10:43] We've got a fair idea that the next man or woman who walks in is probably Bob or Jenny who's in our book.

[00:10:49] And so we can greet them.

[00:10:50] Hey, Jenny, how are you?

[00:10:52] You know, even a new patient.

[00:10:53] Hi, you must be Mrs. Smith.

[00:10:55] My name's Jane.

[00:10:56] I spoke to you on the phone.

[00:10:57] Welcome to Active Dental.

[00:10:59] So much different to ding.

[00:11:01] I'm here for my appointment.

[00:11:02] What's your name?

[00:11:03] Well, you've got my name there.

[00:11:05] Yeah.

[00:11:06] In terms of customer service, making the patient feel good, welcome, every interaction is a wow interaction.

[00:11:15] How important is this practically to have a growing practice?

[00:11:20] There are certain things that we were doing for our patients and in follow up and in, you know, TLC as well,

[00:11:27] which were our point of difference.

[00:11:29] Every time a patient had a crown or a traumatic procedure, you know, they're called the next day for to see how they go.

[00:11:36] I've got clients who have stopped calling patients.

[00:11:38] So how's that crown feel?

[00:11:40] It's a $2,000 investment.

[00:11:41] It's the most expensive thing they're going to buy.

[00:11:43] We know it feels different because it's just got the surface tension of it.

[00:11:47] Porcelain is different to the surface tension of enamel.

[00:11:49] So I remember my first crown that I got, I couldn't stop putting my tongue on it.

[00:11:54] So when do we call them to make sure that everything's going okay?

[00:11:57] Do we call them when they're at home?

[00:11:59] No, we'll call them at work because they'll get off the phone.

[00:12:03] You wouldn't believe that was my dentist just reading to check how my crown is, you know, and everybody else in the office goes,

[00:12:08] my dentist doesn't do that.

[00:12:10] Who's your dentist?

[00:12:11] So it's using, you know, using opportunity to make an impression on another circle of influence as well.

[00:12:20] Again, coming back to, you know, I used to go to our local Chamber of Commerce meetings to meet prospective patients.

[00:12:26] And it became, I was the only dentist there, 50 dentists in my town.

[00:12:31] Nobody else went to these.

[00:12:32] And so it became known when somebody moved in to the city for business,

[00:12:38] they say, where's the best place to go to the dentist?

[00:12:40] And they say, oh, you've got to go to active dental.

[00:12:43] Like it's going to cost you a little bit more, but it's worth it.

[00:12:46] How good an endorsement is that?

[00:12:48] And because that's the perception that if you do charge a little bit more, you must be better because you're able to justify that.

[00:12:55] Otherwise you'd be charging less to try and attract people who are based on price and nothing else.

[00:13:00] We've really got to be mindful that when somebody phones that we find out who we're talking to, first of all,

[00:13:08] and then answer their questions, not answer their questions and then find out that we've spoken to them as if they're a new patient

[00:13:14] and they're actually an existing patient.

[00:13:15] And it's so easy and not put them on hold because you're busy without even finding out who they are and what they're calling about.

[00:13:22] Like, do you mind if I put you on hold for a minute?

[00:13:24] I call dental practices every day and I get that.

[00:13:28] And they don't tell me who they are.

[00:13:30] And then when they come back, they don't tell me who they are every time when I'm put on hold,

[00:13:34] every time it's as that sometimes they don't even say, oh, thank you for waiting.

[00:13:39] You know, thank you for being on hold.

[00:13:42] Sometimes I ask them if they ever ring up and listen to their on hold message.

[00:13:45] Sometimes it's psychological trauma that those bells, you know, the repeating messages again, point of difference.

[00:13:54] How do we make it a point of difference?

[00:13:55] Ask them who they are.

[00:13:56] You might look on just with another patient at the moment.

[00:14:00] Would it be okay if I called you back in 10 minutes?

[00:14:03] Much better than being on hold.

[00:14:04] Totally.

[00:14:05] And, you know, getting someone's information, basic information, name, phone number in case the call drops,

[00:14:14] you know, that way you can address them, call them back, text them, etc.

[00:14:18] I hate being put on hold for long periods of times.

[00:14:21] I think everybody does and I also don't like having a call tree, you know, for a new patient calling

[00:14:28] and they're being put through press one for this, two for this, three for this.

[00:14:31] I just want to talk to somebody staffing your front desk or if it's a bigger practice,

[00:14:37] a patient care center call center to be able to answer the call quickly.

[00:14:42] I mean, it pays dividends.

[00:14:44] It does and you're right with that.

[00:14:46] The only time I got into a problem, I press one for new patient and I found that I was in an offsite office

[00:14:56] and I actually wanted to talk to the dentist.

[00:14:59] So now when I call a practice, I always press two for existing patient.

[00:15:02] I know that there's a 99% chance that goes straight to the front desk in that location.

[00:15:10] Even the other day I called a practice where it was one of six and in different cities.

[00:15:17] I've got someone speaking with an accent from overseas and I asked a couple of questions.

[00:15:22] She said, oh, yeah, I'm here in this practice and then she'd say, I'll forward a note to the doctor.

[00:15:29] And so she was actually telling me that by what she was actioning that she wasn't actually in the practice

[00:15:36] even though this man said she was in the practice because the dentist, I know he does a couple of days

[00:15:42] in one location and it takes him a while, two or three weeks to rotate through the six practices that he owns.

[00:15:48] Anyway, can easily be found out if you're faking it.

[00:15:52] It's interesting too because a lot of people are starting to talk about AI phone calls while AI can be pretty neat.

[00:16:00] I don't think it's anywhere near the point of a human in live conversation.

[00:16:06] And so it'll be interesting to see personally if a robot's on the other line,

[00:16:11] I'm going to hang up and call your competitor because I don't want to talk to a robot.

[00:16:15] Now, maybe when it's very sophisticated, which is a couple years, it's a different story.

[00:16:20] But I think that'll be interesting too because more and more people will be implementing AI call robots to field phone calls.

[00:16:29] I'm hearing it now in some practices where you get an AI voice created that says,

[00:16:36] you know, in a robotic way, we value your call.

[00:16:40] Please wait, please hold and one of our friendly team members will be answering the phone and you go,

[00:16:46] oh, this is not a friendly robot.

[00:16:48] I know you're a robot.

[00:16:50] Why don't you just have a friendly team member there in the first place?

[00:16:52] Yeah, you were mentioning that your wife also works with you and does front desk coaching.

[00:16:59] How overlooked is coaching the people on the phones in dental practices?

[00:17:06] Oh, look, it's huge and it's simple down here.

[00:17:10] And we work a little in the US as well in the same manner.

[00:17:14] Or we have access to recordings of incoming phone calls because it's the only way to coach somebody.

[00:17:20] You know, you can lecture them, you can give them a book, you can send,

[00:17:23] we've got an audio course, but we're not hearing exactly what's happening.

[00:17:26] It's kind of like having piano lessons and never putting your fingers on the keyboard.

[00:17:30] How does a teacher know how you're playing?

[00:17:32] Like my dad when he was doing art classes, his art teacher said,

[00:17:38] you drew this sitting down.

[00:17:40] It was a sketch and my dad said, yeah, how did you know?

[00:17:44] He said because your pressure is different than if you were standing and drawing it.

[00:17:49] We've got to be able to listen.

[00:17:51] And when we listen to teams, because the team member introduces themselves so we know who it is,

[00:17:56] because of the length, we're looking for calls that are too long or calls that are too short.

[00:18:01] And usually calls that are too long are people being put on hold, which is even worse.

[00:18:05] But we're listening to live calls and live interactions and we're able to help each team member

[00:18:12] with their weaknesses and also with their strengths so that we're not just telling them,

[00:18:19] here are the ABCs of answering the phone.

[00:18:22] We're actually saying, well, on this call, here's what happened.

[00:18:24] And usually it's answering of the phone is a recipe.

[00:18:28] Okay. And if you're baking a cake, you can't put the icing on and then throw it in the oven.

[00:18:32] It doesn't work that way.

[00:18:33] You've got to do things in an order.

[00:18:36] And so I'd already mentioned to you, got to get find out first of all, who am I talking to?

[00:18:40] And when was the last time they were in our practice?

[00:18:43] All right.

[00:18:43] And I didn't say have you been here before because that's an insult.

[00:18:46] If they say, yeah, I've been in there.

[00:18:48] I paid for his new car.

[00:18:49] I paid for his overseas trip.

[00:18:51] I paid for that office.

[00:18:52] How best to insult somebody by not realizing who they are?

[00:18:56] So when were you last in to see Dr. Moffin?

[00:18:58] We work with the individual team members to help them.

[00:19:03] And usually when they end up in a rabbit hole, it's because they've gotten things out of order

[00:19:08] and they just haven't followed our eight point checklist.

[00:19:12] And you've got to stick to that.

[00:19:13] But I can give them an eight point checklist, but do people stick to it?

[00:19:16] Not all the time and do some experienced stuff get lazy and sloppy.

[00:19:21] The best thing is that no matter how busy the practice is,

[00:19:25] no matter how productive the practice is, we find when we start listening to the phone calls,

[00:19:29] we can make that practice more productive because they haven't had that coaching

[00:19:36] of their front office team on the phone.

[00:19:37] So we've just come a new client has come to us, two and a half million dollar practice

[00:19:45] and the three people answering the phone all different greetings.

[00:19:51] And we find that and we say, how are your greetings?

[00:19:54] How come your greetings?

[00:19:55] Oh, we've never been coached on that.

[00:19:57] What about your processes in the back?

[00:19:58] Well, they're not consistent either.

[00:20:00] And so it's consistency as well.

[00:20:03] You know, that when you go to, is it the four seasons?

[00:20:09] When it's time for your room key after you, as you've checked in,

[00:20:12] they'll walk around and hand it to you.

[00:20:14] You know, that's a thought out process.

[00:20:17] They'll even walk you over to the elevators.

[00:20:20] That's a thought out process.

[00:20:21] Why is that thought out?

[00:20:22] Because it's different to anywhere else.

[00:20:26] You know, the best thing that I ever heard in my office was that I was just walking

[00:20:30] through the client lounge and I heard a new patient saying to my wife,

[00:20:34] who was then the concierge in the practice saying,

[00:20:37] I can't believe how different this is from what I expected.

[00:20:41] It's so different from any other business I've been in.

[00:20:43] You guys really have nailed it and they hadn't even met me.

[00:20:46] They didn't even know who I was.

[00:20:47] And again, back to that Wizard of Oz analogy

[00:20:50] that if the team is so professional, they love it in terms of and caring.

[00:20:55] And so, you know, that was how I hired my wife to come and work for me.

[00:20:58] She was, you know, when we met, she was studying to be a school teacher.

[00:21:02] Then she was a school teacher.

[00:21:04] She ended up teaching kindergarten.

[00:21:05] The only way to get out of teaching kindergarten is to actually go on maternity leave.

[00:21:09] And so she had her own children and was on maternity leave.

[00:21:13] But then when our children were old enough to find their own way home from school,

[00:21:17] I said, you need to stop doing parents and citizens stuff at the school

[00:21:22] and come and work for me because we need a concierge

[00:21:25] to stop people falling down that chasm.

[00:21:28] And so that's what she came and did.

[00:21:30] Sadly on one Monday when she turned up after dropping the kids off to school,

[00:21:35] I said, we've got a little bit of a problem today.

[00:21:37] Both our receptionists are sick and you're going to have to answer the phone.

[00:21:39] She goes, well, how tough can that be?

[00:21:42] But hey, this is really difficult.

[00:21:45] And so, you know, again, a lot of dentists decide that they're going to teach their staff

[00:21:50] how to answer the phone.

[00:21:51] The staff go, you've never answered the phone before and all you're doing is telling me,

[00:21:56] make me more money, make me more money.

[00:21:57] So the third party is really powerful as well.

[00:22:00] We're hiring somebody who's a professional to help you guys be better at what you do.

[00:22:04] What's the end result for the team member as well?

[00:22:07] I don't know if it's the same in ortho, but in general dentists, dentistry,

[00:22:11] it's the end result is that if we allow cancellations and if we don't book enough

[00:22:16] patients in, we end up with spaces in our book and to fill spaces in our book.

[00:22:23] We have to reactivate patients who have been allowed to cancel.

[00:22:27] And so the more you allow patients to cancel the more of those people there

[00:22:31] are to do and that's the worst thing a dentist can ever say.

[00:22:35] I think we should do some reactivation.

[00:22:37] Everyone starts going, oh, I've got to clean the desk.

[00:22:38] You know, I've got to go to the post office.

[00:22:40] Nobody wants to do that.

[00:22:41] So if you get better at getting people to keep their appointment and getting

[00:22:45] people to not cancel as much as they do as easily as they do, you have less

[00:22:53] reactivation and so it becomes a self fulfilling cycle.

[00:22:59] The busier your book the less people actually cancel in the first place.

[00:23:03] And ultimately we're helping in general dentistry.

[00:23:07] We know that whatever goes on in here doesn't get better by itself.

[00:23:11] It doesn't fix itself.

[00:23:12] The decay doesn't go away.

[00:23:14] You know, the wear doesn't go away.

[00:23:16] All that's the pockets don't go away.

[00:23:20] It has to be treated.

[00:23:21] So every time we allow a patient to defer treatment, we're actually

[00:23:25] impacting on their health instead of in a negative way instead of a positive

[00:23:28] way patients think it's like cleaning the garage.

[00:23:31] I can wait.

[00:23:32] It's going to be the same in a month.

[00:23:33] It's going to be the same in six months.

[00:23:35] Stuff breaks stuff gets worse.

[00:23:37] So we've got to make sure that we're thinking about the patient, but we're

[00:23:39] also thinking about the flow and effect for us as employees and us as a

[00:23:44] business.

[00:23:44] If we're busy and also if we've got people who want to move their appointment

[00:23:49] forward, we've got a perfect practice.

[00:23:51] It's also interesting when you think about how consumers make purchasing

[00:23:56] decisions.

[00:23:56] I don't know if this is true, but I would imagine it's something close

[00:24:00] where people decide who they're going to do business with in the first

[00:24:05] 30 seconds of an interaction.

[00:24:06] It's more of a subconscious decision, but I think it really is true.

[00:24:12] If I look at the interactions I have within customer service, I think it

[00:24:16] goes back to what you brought up earlier, which is the state you help

[00:24:22] someone get in and if you're causing them to get into a negative

[00:24:26] state answering hello, no greeting, no energy in the tone possibly being

[00:24:32] rude.

[00:24:32] I hear a lot of rude people on the call.

[00:24:34] It's another one of these types of patients because maybe a question

[00:24:38] somebody asking it prompts that response from the jaded team member

[00:24:43] that deals with hundreds of people, maybe a day.

[00:24:46] There's all these variables, but if you think about how that makes

[00:24:51] a patient feel, there's a lot of moments where we're hindering

[00:24:57] people from coming in or they may go through the booking process,

[00:25:01] but then they hang up and call somebody else because of how

[00:25:03] they felt.

[00:25:04] All these things we don't think about and we don't see because a

[00:25:08] lot of times we don't stop and put ourselves in the patient

[00:25:11] shoes.

[00:25:12] Well, what would I do?

[00:25:12] Well, how'd I behave when I was trying to fix my plumbing

[00:25:15] problem last week?

[00:25:17] We're reminded, oh, this is consumer behavior.

[00:25:20] It's interesting because when we're in the business working

[00:25:24] on, you know, as like if we're talking to dentist, orthodontist

[00:25:28] or a specialty oral surgeons, whatever, we don't zoom out

[00:25:32] and think about these things.

[00:25:34] I'll ask dentist, when's the last time you listen to a phone

[00:25:36] call and they're like, uh, never?

[00:25:39] Very rarely does one say, oh, well, I call the practice and

[00:25:42] act like a patient every now and then.

[00:25:44] Let's say every 500 I talk to, one says that, but it's very

[00:25:50] lacking and it's that entry point into the practice.

[00:25:55] And so I think it becomes a role that needs to be highly

[00:25:59] skilled and highly trained and incentivized even because

[00:26:03] that's the gatekeeper.

[00:26:05] You know, that's what is going to give you the opportunity

[00:26:09] to help people and then in return get paid for value

[00:26:12] and service.

[00:26:13] Absolute truth, Luke.

[00:26:15] You know, it's a tough job because ultimately when they're

[00:26:19] not incentivized, they get paid exactly the same whether

[00:26:22] they book somebody in or not.

[00:26:25] I have a client at the moment who's implementing a lot

[00:26:27] of systems, but I had to, I had to deconstruct some really

[00:26:31] bad systems that she had in a practice.

[00:26:33] So, you know, trying to be everything to everybody.

[00:26:35] So they had one morning, they opened up really early.

[00:26:38] They had a couple of nights.

[00:26:39] They worked late and so every day had different start

[00:26:43] end times and I said, how can anybody, your staff are

[00:26:48] coming by public transport?

[00:26:50] Sometimes they can't get there because there's no bus at

[00:26:53] that time in the morning or they've got to leave before

[00:26:55] the last bus comes.

[00:26:56] You've got to create some consistency, but the one thing

[00:26:59] that she has that is really causing an issue at the moment

[00:27:03] is everybody gets to do a different role.

[00:27:06] So, so the receptionist one day is not the receptionist

[00:27:10] the next day.

[00:27:10] The dental assistant one day is not the dental assistant

[00:27:13] the next day.

[00:27:13] They rotate around between doctors and they rotate around

[00:27:16] between front and back.

[00:27:18] And sure that means everybody's multi skilled, but there's

[00:27:22] no owners of I own the front desk and I'm responsible for

[00:27:26] making sure that everything is in place.

[00:27:28] So, the thing at her front office is that at the end

[00:27:31] of the day they'll go home and they say, I didn't have

[00:27:34] time to fill those gaps because nobody gets in trouble

[00:27:39] for it because somebody else is stepping into that role

[00:27:41] the next day.

[00:27:42] And whereas as soon as an appointment gets cancelled

[00:27:46] and you end up with a space in today or tomorrow,

[00:27:49] that becomes the next priority.

[00:27:51] And if you say, Oh, I've got to go and sterilize instruments

[00:27:53] or we run out buy more instruments because in no point

[00:27:57] having clean instruments.

[00:27:59] If you haven't got anybody to do any dentistry on right

[00:28:02] the end result from every phone call.

[00:28:04] Nobody ever calls a dental practice for fun.

[00:28:06] Nobody says, yeah, I got half an hour to check out

[00:28:09] the prices of the dentist in in this area.

[00:28:11] They don't do that.

[00:28:12] They call the dentist cause because they have a problem

[00:28:15] and they've also called your dental practice

[00:28:17] because they feel that they've already done their homework.

[00:28:21] They've gone online, they've researched it.

[00:28:23] They've done read the reviews.

[00:28:24] They're already sold on you back in the days

[00:28:26] when I started practicing, it was brass plates

[00:28:29] and dentists would run around measuring whether the brass plate

[00:28:33] the letters were too big on their neighbors signs.

[00:28:35] And that's how nasty it was.

[00:28:37] But now we can actually prove ourselves beforehand

[00:28:40] but we've got to match the perception that the caller

[00:28:43] is going to have from the marketing by who answers

[00:28:46] the phone.

[00:28:47] Ultimately at the end of every phone call, we want that person

[00:28:50] to get off the phone saying, well, that lady was really nice.

[00:28:52] I'm really looking forward to meeting her.

[00:28:54] That sounds like the practice that I've been looking for.

[00:28:59] And in fact, she said she was going to call me

[00:29:01] if there was a change in the books.

[00:29:02] I hope she does.

[00:29:03] I want to go there sooner.

[00:29:04] Those are the feelings that we want everybody to have

[00:29:06] when they get off the phone.

[00:29:07] Not as you mentioned, you know, sometimes they get

[00:29:09] off the phone and they go, I'm not going there.

[00:29:13] Let me call somebody else.

[00:29:14] They don't even ring and cancel.

[00:29:16] Like they go, they were so rude.

[00:29:17] I'm not even, I'm just going to make them pay.

[00:29:20] I'm going to make them waste their time.

[00:29:21] When we find that we've got cancellations happening

[00:29:24] or failing to attend on new patients and we say,

[00:29:28] well, let's punish them.

[00:29:28] Let's make them pay me a hundred dollars

[00:29:31] and we'll be even nastier at a nasty thing.

[00:29:33] Deposits at restaurants were taken because, you know,

[00:29:36] five friends are sitting around.

[00:29:37] They say one wants Mexican, one wants Thai,

[00:29:39] once wants Chinese, one wants Italian,

[00:29:41] one wants Indian food.

[00:29:43] So they make five bookings and then on the night,

[00:29:45] they say, all right, we'll go to this one.

[00:29:47] So the restaurants were really suffering because of that,

[00:29:49] an online booking.

[00:29:50] So that's why they take deposits.

[00:29:52] But nobody makes five dental appointments.

[00:29:55] Yeah, yeah, they've already made the decision.

[00:29:58] And so I think taking a deposit, you don't need that.

[00:30:02] If your systems and your processes are customer oriented,

[00:30:08] people will get off the phone and say, that lady sound

[00:30:10] is so nice.

[00:30:11] I really am glad I called.

[00:30:13] She was so caring.

[00:30:15] She was friendly.

[00:30:17] She helped me with my problem and she gave me hope.

[00:30:21] 100%.

[00:30:22] Be friendly, help them solve their problem.

[00:30:25] That's why they're calling, finding out what it is.

[00:30:27] And their problem isn't the price.

[00:30:29] You know, the problem is what they're asking the price

[00:30:30] about.

[00:30:31] So just knowing that what to listen for and, you know,

[00:30:35] using their name back to them as well, very important look.

[00:30:39] Totally.

[00:30:40] When we move on and we look at growth, let's say, you know,

[00:30:45] you want to go from the average dental practice and be

[00:30:49] exceptional in terms of production and revenue.

[00:30:53] You've got your systems down.

[00:30:56] You've got the core team members.

[00:30:58] A lot of times I see, I'm curious your thoughts,

[00:31:00] there's the doctor and then there's everybody else.

[00:31:03] There's this flat org chart and you even mentioned

[00:31:07] somebody who rotates roles.

[00:31:09] I've seen that too where, you know, oh, we let this person

[00:31:12] do it and then this person do it.

[00:31:14] That creates a generalist rather than a specialist.

[00:31:17] So I'm curious what you see with what's needed in terms

[00:31:22] of leadership, an org chart, thinking about a team structure.

[00:31:28] This is what big companies are really good at.

[00:31:30] They figured out, okay, we've got the top, the CEO.

[00:31:33] We need these leadership roles.

[00:31:36] Then we're going to have all these other roles that report

[00:31:38] up to these roles and that way the organization flows

[00:31:42] properly.

[00:31:42] There's mentorship, there's growth opportunities.

[00:31:46] What do you see within dental practices that is causing

[00:31:50] that flat org chart and maybe a different way of thinking

[00:31:55] in order to scale your organization?

[00:31:57] It's tough because everybody's only got 24 hours in the day.

[00:32:00] So time utilization is important and this is why

[00:32:03] the average dental practice stays average in that the

[00:32:05] dentist starts doing things that they've actually paid

[00:32:08] other people to do and they're doing them instead.

[00:32:11] So, you know, the dumbest thing used to be the dentist used

[00:32:15] to be assembling matrix bands or the dentist would be mixing

[00:32:19] up impression material while the dental assistant stood there

[00:32:22] and watched him.

[00:32:23] The next dumb thing is at the end of the appointment,

[00:32:26] the dentist takes the patient out and instead of standing

[00:32:30] on the patient with beside the patient and talking to

[00:32:34] the receptionist, the dentist goes and stands beside

[00:32:36] the receptionist.

[00:32:37] The patient's on the other side of the desk so we create

[00:32:39] this two against one whereas if we're standing with the

[00:32:42] patient, we're with the patient and the patient feels

[00:32:45] like we're sharing them back to the receptionist but then

[00:32:47] the dentist actually becomes the receptionist.

[00:32:49] So the receptionist sitting there and the receptionist

[00:32:51] knows what to do with the appointment book and the dentist

[00:32:52] goes, oh let's move this patient, let's put the patient

[00:32:54] there.

[00:32:55] All of a sudden the receptionist is not getting up

[00:32:57] and going and treating the next patient.

[00:32:58] So this is why they fail financially.

[00:33:02] They also are sending an incorrect message to the patient.

[00:33:06] The other thing about dental reception areas is that,

[00:33:08] you know, 50 years ago they had a glass barrier in there

[00:33:13] so that the patient coming out after having an extraction

[00:33:15] didn't spit blood on the receptionist.

[00:33:17] It rarely happens in dentistry these days and so,

[00:33:20] you know, in I think about 20 years ago when we

[00:33:24] remodeled our practice, we made our reception area

[00:33:28] a place where there was just a tiny little upstand

[00:33:31] with a monitor.

[00:33:32] Every transaction was actually done as you are at a desk

[00:33:36] across eye to eye, all right?

[00:33:38] And no barrier.

[00:33:41] So I say the first thing that if you buy a dental practice

[00:33:44] and it's got an upstand there, you just get a chainsaw

[00:33:47] and you just cut that down thing off and make it a desk

[00:33:49] and it's like having a coffee.

[00:33:51] And so there's a relationship happening when people are

[00:33:54] eye to eye, a conversation starts happening and often

[00:33:57] I used to find when we set that up and they were

[00:33:59] in separate rooms and the rooms had glass walls between them.

[00:34:03] So my two receptionists could see each other when the phone ring

[00:34:07] they could actually see each other.

[00:34:08] The patient sat back to back and they looked to see

[00:34:11] who was going to get the call if they were both with a patient.

[00:34:13] We didn't want it to feel like that.

[00:34:15] We wanted to feel open.

[00:34:16] The other thing about having a glass door is that

[00:34:20] if the receptionist on the phone, then somebody

[00:34:22] just doesn't charge in with the patient coming out as well.

[00:34:25] And so we also had a little sign.

[00:34:26] If the receptionist on the phone, she had like a little

[00:34:29] card that was red, don't come in or she had a little card

[00:34:33] that was green saying it's okay to bring the patient in

[00:34:36] while I'm on the phone.

[00:34:37] Again, just little signals but creating that environment

[00:34:41] where people feel comfortable because we all know the scene

[00:34:44] from coming to America if we're old enough.

[00:34:47] You know, the Eddie Murphy movie, the barbershop scene

[00:34:50] where everybody in the barbershop is listening

[00:34:52] to what's going on and of course we're concerned

[00:34:54] about patient privacy but in dentistry it's not about

[00:34:58] we're not saying they've got an infection on a part

[00:35:02] of their body like at the doctor's surgery.

[00:35:04] It's just in the mouth.

[00:35:06] It's not really that bad.

[00:35:07] So sometimes a patient will hear in a client lounge

[00:35:13] in an older practice will hear,

[00:35:14] oh, that lady is having Invisalign.

[00:35:16] I'm going to get Invisalign.

[00:35:17] Oh, let me, it's almost like a conversational

[00:35:21] by the way sale.

[00:35:25] And again, patients saying, I'm getting this,

[00:35:27] I'm getting that dentistry is not about boils on backs

[00:35:32] and nasty things really.

[00:35:35] It's about making people look better

[00:35:37] and making them feel better.

[00:35:39] And so we've got to bring that into our transactional side

[00:35:44] of dentistry.

[00:35:45] And you know, the worst thing

[00:35:47] about dentistry is that it costs a lot.

[00:35:50] And so that if we don't spend time over the transactions

[00:35:55] patients kind of like other chair.

[00:35:57] It's like getting off a roller coaster ride as quickly

[00:36:00] as you get off.

[00:36:01] There's somebody else gets on and off it goes

[00:36:03] and you go, did I leave anything on the floor

[00:36:05] in that roller coaster?

[00:36:06] You know, is it going to like that sometimes

[00:36:08] that's even dentistry.

[00:36:09] It's gone out in the street.

[00:36:10] I can't tell.

[00:36:11] I've got a numb face and I've got a thousand dollars

[00:36:15] missing from my wallet.

[00:36:16] What happened?

[00:36:18] So again, we want to make it that it's more than

[00:36:20] just about the dentistry.

[00:36:21] We want to make it about the relationship

[00:36:24] and the touch and feel.

[00:36:26] And that's really, really important.

[00:36:28] Is there anything that you see and that you maybe coach on

[00:36:32] in regards to mindset from the top tier dentist

[00:36:37] what separates the top tier versus the average type of practice?

[00:36:41] Is there mindset differences that are more common

[00:36:46] that you see maybe with the high performers top tier

[00:36:50] than the average?

[00:36:50] Great question.

[00:36:51] I wish everybody asked me this because

[00:36:53] the average dentist believes that if they were smart enough

[00:36:56] to become a dent to get to dental school

[00:36:59] and then are smart enough to get through dental school,

[00:37:02] they're smart enough to know everything that they have to do

[00:37:05] and that's not the case.

[00:37:07] You know, anybody who plays tennis,

[00:37:09] anybody who plays golf, anybody who plays the piano

[00:37:12] will know that there's things that go on

[00:37:14] that are outside of your control.

[00:37:16] While you're functioning on the piano keys

[00:37:18] you're more concerned about the process than the sound

[00:37:23] and when you're swinging a golf club,

[00:37:25] you don't know where that golf club is behind you

[00:37:27] because you're watching the ball

[00:37:28] because if you take your eye off the ball

[00:37:29] it takes your balance totally away.

[00:37:32] And same with tennis as well.

[00:37:33] Are you watching where you're going to hit the ball to

[00:37:35] or are you watching the ball hit the racket?

[00:37:37] You're always watching where you're trusting

[00:37:39] that you're getting that hand in play.

[00:37:41] The top tier dentists understand that they only know

[00:37:45] so much they can't do everything and they need

[00:37:49] to get help.

[00:37:51] And you know, the bottom tier dentists are the same guys

[00:37:54] who say, you know, I'm going to do all my own financial advice

[00:37:57] because I don't like paying a commission to somebody else

[00:38:00] to tell me what to do.

[00:38:01] But really you just got to pay somebody else to do it

[00:38:06] because you don't have the time to do the research thoroughly

[00:38:08] and it's the same in with the top tier dentists.

[00:38:11] They understand that they need to delegate within their practice.

[00:38:15] They need to do what they do really well

[00:38:17] but they need to take advice from somebody who has done it before

[00:38:21] or somebody who has helped somebody do it before.

[00:38:24] You know, I like to think in sport it's 50-50 as to whether

[00:38:30] because you're a good player you can actually be a good coach

[00:38:33] or half the coaches were never good players

[00:38:36] but they were really good at understanding the science

[00:38:38] of their sport and they were able to empower players

[00:38:42] all the time in the process and create a process

[00:38:45] that is professional and winning.

[00:38:48] Really hard to do that when you're on a mechanic underneath the car.

[00:38:51] You don't know what's going on in your office.

[00:38:53] It's the same in dentistry.

[00:38:55] You aren't, you're focused on that mouth.

[00:38:57] You really don't know what's going on behind.

[00:38:59] You just hope that it's going on fine

[00:39:02] and you want to make sure that it's going on as well as it can be.

[00:39:07] The big difference for me Luke and it's in my book, you know,

[00:39:12] my practice is doing double the average and I still had gaps in my book

[00:39:16] and I'm going, well, I need help.

[00:39:19] And everybody's saying, Dave, you're going alright.

[00:39:20] You're doing double.

[00:39:21] Don't worry.

[00:39:22] And then I met a guy doing double what I was doing

[00:39:25] and I'm gone and he worked in a low socioeconomic area of the mine.

[00:39:28] I thought, what's the difference?

[00:39:30] Difference was he had a coach and so I then went and got a coach.

[00:39:35] My first coach was a disaster.

[00:39:37] We just weren't on the same page

[00:39:39] but my second coach I stayed with for six years

[00:39:42] and tripled my practice in that six years by focusing on customer service.

[00:39:47] And so from that second coach that the next 15 years on

[00:39:52] my practice went up in collections, went from $400,000 a year to 3.4 million a year

[00:39:57] went up $3 million in 15 years in turnover.

[00:40:01] There was a four three-chair practice when I started that process

[00:40:06] and it was a seven-chair practice when I finished.

[00:40:09] It wasn't like we grew 15 times.

[00:40:12] We just did things better along the way.

[00:40:15] We ended up with more hygienists than dentists,

[00:40:17] which is meant that we had the customers there,

[00:40:19] the customer base that trust in our business,

[00:40:23] you know, our rent role as realtors call it.

[00:40:26] So I'm hearing a few things.

[00:40:28] I think the first thing that a lot of people can relate to is ego.

[00:40:34] So letting go of the ego, which can be tough for high performers,

[00:40:38] business owners, not just dentists,

[00:40:40] but I do think there is something to going to school for so long

[00:40:44] and proving yourself and having to overanalyze things.

[00:40:49] Like that's kind of your job as a dentist

[00:40:52] is you're being so cautious and analyzing everything

[00:40:56] to make sure that you get it right.

[00:40:58] But let going of that ego,

[00:41:00] especially when you're putting on your business hat,

[00:41:02] getting out of your way,

[00:41:04] allowing others to do what they do best,

[00:41:07] that will allow you to serve more people,

[00:41:10] function more efficiently.

[00:41:12] Another thing you mentioned,

[00:41:13] I'm glad you mentioned this, is getting a coach.

[00:41:16] So many people I talk to that are the top tier say the same thing.

[00:41:21] But then I hear some people say,

[00:41:23] well, that first coach was a disaster,

[00:41:25] so no more coaches.

[00:41:27] I think that is part of life,

[00:41:31] learning experiences just because one thing fails,

[00:41:35] especially if it's a person don't write it off.

[00:41:39] Just look for the new coach.

[00:41:41] So many people do this with marketing.

[00:41:42] Oh, I hired a marketing company, bad leads.

[00:41:46] It was terrible and it's like,

[00:41:47] well, that doesn't mean that marketing doesn't work.

[00:41:51] Certainly we know marketing and advertising works.

[00:41:55] How do you get it to work for your practice?

[00:41:58] And really, you're probably not all that different.

[00:42:00] It was probably something internal,

[00:42:02] but maybe it was external.

[00:42:03] I think my point is, is always be open to growing

[00:42:08] and working with other people

[00:42:10] and realizing that other people are gonna do things better

[00:42:14] than you can,

[00:42:15] but what is the thing that you can do that no one else can

[00:42:18] as a dentist is practicing dentistry?

[00:42:22] No one else in the practice

[00:42:23] unless you have multiple doctors

[00:42:24] that can do what you do.

[00:42:25] So I think that's just huge.

[00:42:27] If you wanna grow,

[00:42:29] you gotta get out of your own way.

[00:42:30] You gotta let go of the ego and it takes a team.

[00:42:34] You've got to have the right people around you all the time.

[00:42:37] It's a cliche, but Tiger Woods had multiple coaches

[00:42:42] for different parts of his golf game.

[00:42:45] Roger Federer, the same thing.

[00:42:47] His box is full of coaches,

[00:42:49] fitness coach, mind coach.

[00:42:52] Also all parts, there's all parts that

[00:42:55] if coaching was free, everybody would use it.

[00:42:57] Just like if hygiene visits were free,

[00:43:00] people would go far more often than they do

[00:43:02] because it feels good and it's good for you.

[00:43:05] Ultimately without being confused,

[00:43:07] the only thing about not having a coach

[00:43:09] is having too many coaches or trying to do it yourself

[00:43:12] and then trawling through the internet

[00:43:14] and taking a bit of here and a bit of that

[00:43:16] and you end up with a dog

[00:43:18] that's got five lines of heritage

[00:43:23] and five different parts.

[00:43:25] We met a lady the other day at a hotel.

[00:43:27] We said, you've got a spring of spaniel

[00:43:29] and she goes, not many people know

[00:43:31] what a spring of spaniel is and we did.

[00:43:33] And she says, a lot of people come up,

[00:43:34] what's it crossed with?

[00:43:35] What sort of dog is this and what's it crossed with?

[00:43:37] So again, that's an issue.

[00:43:39] If you find a coach, just do what that coach tells you

[00:43:43] and don't confuse yourself

[00:43:45] because usually what you'll find is

[00:43:47] that that coach is telling you something

[00:43:49] and especially if it's somebody who's done it themselves

[00:43:52] and done it for other people,

[00:43:53] they're telling you something that they know works

[00:43:56] and will work for you.

[00:43:57] And in fact, one of my clients says to me,

[00:44:01] she said, David sometimes I just say yes

[00:44:03] and agree with you just to shut you up

[00:44:06] and guess what?

[00:44:08] It always works.

[00:44:11] Although I am resistant,

[00:44:12] I know that you're persistent because you know it works.

[00:44:15] And so I'm learning that it's like the yellow brick road.

[00:44:18] There is a green line to success

[00:44:21] and if you stay on that green line,

[00:44:23] that's the quickest way to get to success.

[00:44:25] If you divert from the green line,

[00:44:27] the coach brings you back.

[00:44:28] If you try and do it yourself,

[00:44:29] we've all seen the diagram.

[00:44:30] The road to success in reality is a whole pile of squiggles

[00:44:33] but if somebody can help you straighten that out

[00:44:36] and just help the dentists stay away from the shiny objects

[00:44:40] and just do the things that need to be done,

[00:44:43] then owning a dental practice is a gift

[00:44:46] because if you nurture that gift,

[00:44:48] it is a financial benefit for you

[00:44:50] so that you can live where you want,

[00:44:52] send your children to school where you want,

[00:44:55] retire where you want to

[00:44:56] and do those things in retirement.

[00:44:58] Whereas if you don't realize that gift,

[00:45:02] it becomes a struggle.

[00:45:03] For those listening, watching that want to learn more,

[00:45:06] get in touch with you.

[00:45:07] What's the best way for them to reach out?

[00:45:09] Find me on Facebook.

[00:45:10] I've got a Facebook page that,

[00:45:12] what you see is what you get.

[00:45:15] There's no, I'm not scared of people finding who I am

[00:45:18] or what I'm doing.

[00:45:20] David Moffat, it's easy to remember.

[00:45:22] It's, I have to spell for people

[00:45:25] who can't speak English sometimes.

[00:45:27] So I say it's M-O-F like in French fry

[00:45:30] and then E-T like the movie.

[00:45:32] That's the easiest way to remember me

[00:45:35] and it's the same on LinkedIn as well.

[00:45:39] They're the two socials that I use the most.

[00:45:42] Instagram I use, but I'm still working out by

[00:45:46] but I like the way that makes pictures look

[00:45:48] and they go to my Facebook page.

[00:45:50] I've got a website, the ultimatepatientexperience.com

[00:45:54] you know just reach out for me.

[00:45:56] Once you find me, make contact.

[00:45:59] We can have a 20 minute chat

[00:46:00] about what's going on at your practice

[00:46:02] and just see if you know

[00:46:03] if I can help you or I can steer you to somebody

[00:46:05] who can help you.

[00:46:06] I love talking to Dennis.

[00:46:07] Sometimes I find some really interesting models

[00:46:09] and I'm like, wow, I never thought of doing it that way.

[00:46:12] And so I'm always amazed at what opportunities

[00:46:15] there are in dentistry for dental practice owners

[00:46:18] and dentists as dental practice owners.

[00:46:21] Well, thanks so much for coming on the Grow Ortho podcast.

[00:46:24] It's good to see you again and I really appreciate it.

[00:46:27] Yeah, pleasure, Luke

[00:46:29] and thanks for inviting me back

[00:46:30] and it's been fun.

[00:46:32] I really enjoyed it.

[00:46:34] Thanks for listening.

[00:46:35] If you'd like to learn more about HIP

[00:46:38] or any of the topics in this episode,

[00:46:40] send an email to hello at hipcreativeink.com

[00:46:44] that's hello at H-I-P creative-I-N-C dot com

[00:46:49] or jump over to our website at hip dot agency.