How To Dominate Your Orthodontic Market NOW!

[00:00:06] Jill, thanks so much for coming on The Grow Ortho Podcast.

[00:00:10] Luke, thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

[00:00:13] Absolutely. So tell those watching or listening just a little bit about you and what you do.

[00:00:19] Sure. So my name is Jill Allen. I have a business, Jill Allen & Associates. I'm an orthodontic

[00:00:24] consultant. I primarily work in the orthodontic startup acquisition realm, kind of that eight

[00:00:30] years and younger crowd. And we, for the most part, I mean, we work in all areas of, you know,

[00:00:37] all practice life cycles. But we, in that startup acquisition, we help doctors. I always say

[00:00:44] demographics to doors open and then that first year in business. So just helping them get all

[00:00:49] their systems in place, determine where they want to, you know, have their practice be and just really

[00:00:54] get off the ground and running. In terms of, you know, what you do now, how'd you get started with

[00:01:00] consulting? It's kind of an interesting story. When I first got into this, it was right after

[00:01:06] asking about children, right after I had my first child, my daughter, Jordan. And I, my mother was

[00:01:15] actually in the orthodontic field and they had an opening for a sterilization assistant. And I didn't

[00:01:21] want to go back. I had been in property management and I didn't want to go back into that. And so I was

[00:01:26] like, eh, well, sure, you know, orthodontic sounds good. And so I got into a really great office and

[00:01:34] started in the sterilization area and loved the orthodontic industry and thought, oh, this is, you

[00:01:40] know, this is just a great industry. And I happened to have gotten in with a doctor that was very

[00:01:45] progressive. He really loved, you know, believed in consultants, really loved continuing education.

[00:01:51] And so I got a lot of exposure to things that I would not have gotten exposure to, you know, maybe

[00:01:57] had I worked for a different, a different doctor. And he was also very encouraging of, you know, learn,

[00:02:03] you know, at that time there were no schools out there to learn, you know, anything in the orthodontic

[00:02:08] office. It was all self-trained. And so I had an opportunity to start in sterilization, kind of worked my

[00:02:15] way up into clinic, then became a clinical assistant and then became a trainer and, you know, just kind

[00:02:21] of kept moving along. And then through the years with multiple other offices, I knew that because of

[00:02:28] the imprint that I had from this, you know, the, the being in front of the sages of our industry,

[00:02:34] when they were, you know, kind of, you know, young and, you know, do it, doing everything. It was like,

[00:02:40] oh, this is, you know, that's a cool thing. And so I would keep little notebooks, kind of, I'm leading

[00:02:45] up to how I got into consulting, but, you know, I would keep, keep little notebooks on, all right,

[00:02:49] this works in an office, this doesn't work in an office. And, you know, I was just always thinking

[00:02:54] about that. And so as I moved along, my goal was to learn every area of an orthodontic practice

[00:03:00] and to really master each area. And then 18 years ago, I decided, okay, I think I want to move into

[00:03:07] consulting. And that's, that's kind of how I went from getting into ortho, then on into starting my

[00:03:13] business. So it was, it was, it was nice to have a really well-rounded background because that has

[00:03:19] really helped me a lot, you know, in, in what I do. 18 years ago, you started your business and I feel

[00:03:26] like the industry has changed so much. I mean, we, we've only really been in orthodontics for going

[00:03:31] on nine years. We started hip about 10 and a half years ago. But, you know, even through that,

[00:03:37] that timeframe, there's been a lot of changes, advancements, tech, you know, obviously the,

[00:03:43] the corporate landscape and DSOs, OSOs has really kind of changed a lot too. I'm curious over the

[00:03:50] past 18 years, what are some of the biggest changes that you've seen in the industry?

[00:03:55] Gosh, you know, so it's, it's interesting when I think back, because if you can believe this,

[00:04:01] when I got into it, even operating systems, you know, I've been doing this 33 years in the

[00:04:06] orthodontic field, even operating systems were still new. We were running on DOS, you know,

[00:04:12] like, I mean, who even knows that, right? You know, so, so to think about, even if we just think about

[00:04:18] that, that track for a minute and how we have moved along and the embrace of moving from paper

[00:04:26] into digital. And, you know, now even, you know, when I do startup practices,

[00:04:32] we don't even think about paper, you know, even down to, you know, when you're, when you're thinking

[00:04:37] about your collateral, I mean, yes, we may still have a business card, but, you know, everything

[00:04:43] is digital now. And so, you know, I think about, you know, changes in that way to, um, you know,

[00:04:49] changes in just our, um, the tools that we use to move teeth, you know, and what doctors are using

[00:04:56] now, you know, it was such a fixed system, you know, it was hardcore, you know, I can remember,

[00:05:02] you know, pounding on brackets, you know, on fours, fives, sixes, and sevens, you know what I

[00:05:06] mean? And, you know, it's like, who would go through that torture anymore? Right. And now we

[00:05:11] don't even buy bands, you know, and, and most of the time we're starting off practices with, um,

[00:05:16] you know, some type of a digital bracket in a, um, you know, in a liner system. And maybe if we're

[00:05:22] going to have a fixed bracket, it more has to do with something that's very specific geared towards

[00:05:27] experience with a phase one. So, you know, when I think about it from a modality standpoint,

[00:05:32] we've had some phenomenal changes. And then I think the hot one right now is we're just seeing

[00:05:38] AI and, you know, what is happening in, in that realm for us? You know, we used to-

[00:05:44] So powerful.

[00:05:44] Oh, it's, and it's wonderful. And I think, you know, so many people are so afraid of,

[00:05:50] of, Oh, it's going to take a job. It's going to do this. And I keep telling everybody that'll

[00:05:54] listen to me, I'm like, no, it's just going to make you more efficient. Just, just imagine what

[00:05:59] you can do with your time. If you free up, you know, those three hours that you were,

[00:06:04] you know, spending writing out your social media calendar when, you know, you can do that like that.

[00:06:10] And now you've got time to really spend time on patient experience or this, that, or the other.

[00:06:14] So I know I'm kind of all over the place, but I think you could talk about every,

[00:06:19] every area. I'll just say one more area that I think is really fun that we're seeing changes.

[00:06:24] And, and it's just really, I think embracing that, you know, that who not how principle in that.

[00:06:32] There are so many wonderful third-party companies that can step in and assist offices where we just

[00:06:39] don't have to have these, you know, all, all, you know, these fat orthodontic offices anymore.

[00:06:44] And, you know, and I, and I say that, you know, very lightly, it just meaning that we don't have

[00:06:49] to have just this incredible overhead anymore of team members. Now we can have very specifically

[00:06:55] trained, drilled down employees that are able to give really good patient experience and know that

[00:07:01] we may be able to lean on third-party companies to help us, you know, maybe accomplish things that

[00:07:07] we don't have to have in the office anymore.

[00:07:08] And, and certainly the efficiencies with running digital, if you're all in, you can really kind

[00:07:13] of run more lean because that's the model, you know, and leveraging things like rhinogram or dental

[00:07:21] monitoring, you know, as well with a digital workflow, it can really allow a practice to run lean and kind

[00:07:30] of save on payroll and those types of things. So yeah, really cool.

[00:07:35] Yeah. Yeah. I, I just love seeing, seeing what's out there and I'm just going to say yes. Yes. Again. Yes. Yes. Yes.

[00:07:43] Digital is, is where we should be heading. Yeah. We should be embracing it.

[00:07:48] Yeah. And I, I can't even imagine back. I'm trying to think 18 years ago with the internet. I mean, so many changes

[00:07:55] with marketing and advertising, you know, I still hear stories from dentists and orthodontists of

[00:08:00] how they had to measure their sign and send in photos to the board and, you know, that's completely

[00:08:07] shifted and it's so different now and it's always changing, you know?

[00:08:12] Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think about, you know, our only way of advertising was the yellow pages,

[00:08:18] you know what I mean? Like it was truly, and, and you were really slick. If you could find a way

[00:08:23] to get your name under the dental column and the orthodontic column because D came before O,

[00:08:31] I mean like how nuts is that? And you would think about how do I name my practice, you know,

[00:08:36] trying to make sure that you came alphabetically first. Now, I mean like we don't even think about

[00:08:41] things like that anymore, but isn't that crazy to think even something like that was part of a

[00:08:46] marketing strategy? Well, yeah. And I think dovetailing that into what you brought up,

[00:08:53] which is AI, you don't want to be behind because you can see, I mean, I still talk to people who are

[00:08:59] talking about, you know, the digital version of yellow pages or just some really antiquated thing.

[00:09:05] And should I spend money on this? And then you have kind of the pioneers and then you have everybody

[00:09:11] else who's more or less doing things that are fairly current, you know? But, you know, really

[00:09:17] taking the time to understand AI or working with companies who do all the way down to, you know,

[00:09:26] how are you treating patients? How are you doing marketing? Are there efficiencies that the team

[00:09:31] can use AI for? All of that really, because that is the future. You know, and the last thing that you

[00:09:39] want is to be the last office adopting this thing. And, you know, it's crazy. I use it for so many

[00:09:46] things that I do now. And it probably my output has tripled since really adopting it. And I'm not even

[00:09:55] that versed in it, but using the knowledge graph and kind of training the bot specific ways and

[00:10:01] building bots for social media scheduling, just like you said, all the way down to understanding

[00:10:07] people in psychology. I mean, it's just brilliant what it can do. Right. So, yeah, I highly encourage

[00:10:16] people to kind of dig in and find how they can optimize their practice with AI. Yeah. And, you know,

[00:10:22] it's interesting that, you know, you talk about that. We just got off of a big retreat. I once a

[00:10:28] quarter, my team, I bring everybody together and we do a big business meeting slash training retreat.

[00:10:35] And one of our topics that we were actually talking about and training on was AI and, you know, just

[00:10:41] how to, as a team, use it better, but also how to really help our offices be able to use it. And it

[00:10:48] is, I think the biggest thing is it seems very scary to somebody who doesn't understand it. You

[00:10:54] know, oh, you know, big brother, there's so, you know, something's out there tracking my this or that

[00:10:58] or whatever, but it's so exciting. I love it when we have team members that, you know, really start to

[00:11:05] understand it and we're helping them. And, you know, and even my own team members, when I'm like,

[00:11:09] you know, Hey, we're going to write this SOP and we're going to just throw it into chat GPT. And we're

[00:11:14] going to tell it the parameters. We're going to tell it what font we want it in. We're going to tell

[00:11:19] it the outline that we want, the voice, the, this, the, that, and, you know, we're going to give it the

[00:11:23] main ideas and boom, you know, and I, again, you know, taking that into offices. Wow. You know,

[00:11:28] again, these are those things that just eat up our time that you don't even realize.

[00:11:35] Yeah. And I mean, offices may ask us like, Hey, you know, I need to hire this role. Do you guys have

[00:11:40] a job description or, you know, and it's like in the time that you took to ask us, not that I would

[00:11:47] tell them this, but you know, in a soft way, like for those listening, you could literally just go to

[00:11:53] chat GPT, type it in and you can literally coach it. So with what it comes back with, you can literally

[00:12:00] give it another prompt and Hey, refine this or put it more in this voice or this tone. And I would just

[00:12:05] encourage anyone listening before you go ask or before you scramble or before you think, Oh, I've

[00:12:10] got to go spend hours researching this. Literally, somebody who works in our office, they use the audio

[00:12:18] version. So they like turn on the audio and just talk to it. And it just literally will spit back

[00:12:24] stuff like job descriptions or how to like, if you don't know how to do something with Facebook or

[00:12:29] Instagram, same thing. It's just literally right there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's pretty cool.

[00:12:36] It's pretty cool for sure. So how big is your team?

[00:12:39] So we are, um, there is, gosh, what are we at now? I think we're up to 12 now on our team.

[00:12:46] Yeah. And you know, I've got a director level and then a consultant level. And then we also,

[00:12:52] you know, have people on our HeyDoc site as well. So yeah. Yeah. How many consultants

[00:12:57] are on your team? Uh, we've got five consultants. Yeah. Okay. And is there a specific type of practice

[00:13:05] that you guys work with or is it anything from startup to, you know, eight figure, everything in

[00:13:11] between? What's that look like? Yeah. So I would say, um, you know, my, my primary focus when I got

[00:13:18] started was, um, working with startup practices or I kind of coined it that eight years and younger,

[00:13:24] you know, so any doctor that's been in a business eight years or younger or team members, um, and,

[00:13:30] you know, naturally startups fall into that. So probably where, where we focus the most is working

[00:13:37] with doctors who are doing startups or who have done an acquisition. And, you know, when I got into

[00:13:42] this 18 years ago, when I started this, what I saw was that there are these really amazing doctors

[00:13:49] coming out, um, wanting to do their own practices and, you know, there we can see there has been such a

[00:13:56] decline in senior doctors selling their practices that it's almost kind of pushed doctors into having

[00:14:02] to do startups where that would not have been here 20 years ago, 30 years ago. Um, and so I saw this,

[00:14:09] you know, this deficit I thought in the consulting realm where I was like, we've got all of these young

[00:14:15] doctors and they're coming out. They don't really have a, an opportunity to purchase. They have to do a

[00:14:20] startup, but they don't know how to be a business owner. They don't know how to set up those

[00:14:25] fundamental systems that we can walk into any big, you know, practice that's been running five years

[00:14:31] or more. And those core positions are all in place. Somebody took the time to figure it out, set them

[00:14:36] up. So, um, I kind of, I, I saw that opportunity and thought this is really where I want to live.

[00:14:43] And so we, for the most part, focus on that eight years and younger crowd. Um, we also do a lot with

[00:14:50] eight years to retirement. So I've got a lot of docs that are, they know that they're getting to a point

[00:14:56] where they're going to want to retire, but maybe their systems aren't up to date. They just aren't

[00:15:00] like, they just aren't primed and ready to be able to get the money that they want out of their

[00:15:05] practice. And so we'll go in and help them kind of get it up to, we'll say 2024, 25 standards.

[00:15:12] And then it just helps them then, you know, have a nice handoff for a doctor.

[00:15:17] We do work with a lot of doctors in that, in that in between, but you know, I, I just really love

[00:15:23] that the two shoulders, those are, those are really where, you know, where we want. And if

[00:15:27] we're working with a doctor in between, it usually has to do with, they've lost a lot of institutional

[00:15:32] knowledge. Maybe they've had a lot of team turnover and it's back to the fundamentals. Again,

[00:15:37] we got to put these core areas in place. We've got to reestablish things that maybe we're running on

[00:15:44] autopilot that the doc was like, I don't, I don't know how to do financials. My financial

[00:15:48] coordinator has been here for 20 years, you know? And so now we're coming back in and helping them

[00:15:52] set those systems back up.

[00:15:53] Yeah. Certainly since COVID team turnover has been like the number one topic. Very, very different.

[00:16:00] Yes. Yeah. And, you know, and it's sad because again, if you were to look at historically,

[00:16:07] it, it would have been nothing to have a team member stay with you all the way through your career.

[00:16:13] Um, you know, where a doctor could really say, you know, they've worked with me for 20 years.

[00:16:19] I tell doctors now we're lucky if we get two to three years out of a team member, if you get more

[00:16:24] than two to three years, I think, I think that you are doing definitely doing something right.

[00:16:31] And, you know, if I could stand on a soapbox for a minute, I think some of that issue has been,

[00:16:37] and I've really been working with my docs to really make sure that they understand this is,

[00:16:41] we have to make sure that our team members see a position in our office as a career and not just

[00:16:49] a job as to moving on to something else. And so I just think we've got some work still to do in

[00:16:53] our industry to kind of make it, um, where team members aren't like, Oh, I'm going to do,

[00:16:59] I'm going to go work at their front desk until I can get into vet school or until I can get into

[00:17:03] whatever. I mean, we've, we've got an incredible, you know, just, just an incredible industry.

[00:17:09] I just don't think we've done a good job at showcasing that it can be a, it can be a career

[00:17:14] for somebody.

[00:17:15] Yeah, for sure. I think painting the picture of the upside to the team is, is really important.

[00:17:20] You know, as the practice grows, how could you grow? It seems like that's what young people

[00:17:25] are most focused in. If they can't grow and they don't know what they're working towards,

[00:17:30] they're like, I'm out, you know? And so no longer can you be in the days of, Oh, I'm just going to

[00:17:36] hire somebody to answer the phones. When in reality, the person answering your phone should

[00:17:41] actually be a very skilled person, you know? And so what's the upside as that position grows,

[00:17:48] um, or hit certain goals or how can we incentivize them? I think it's just really, really key.

[00:17:54] Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I, and I think it is, you know, bringing it back to the very basics, even,

[00:18:00] and this is a little controversial, but you know, I, I, I coach and strongly believe this,

[00:18:07] that we should be pretty transparent with our pay scales too. You know, at this level and this

[00:18:13] amount of training you have, you're going to make between this and this at this level and this amount

[00:18:18] of training and additional, you know, job duties and whatnot, you're going to make this. And it,

[00:18:22] it doesn't have to be that, Oh, I only move up if I'm moving from clinic to TC, or I only move up if

[00:18:28] I'm moving from this role to this role. I think we should, we should be incentivizing for within each

[00:18:35] of our core positions and be very transparent that if you want to make more, if you want to do more,

[00:18:43] we're going, you know, we're going to be really transparent that there is movement and it's easy to

[00:18:48] see. And I think what's interesting is we start to see that, you know, we may, there are, most of our

[00:18:54] employees will probably be level two employees. You know, they kind of get to a point and they get

[00:18:58] really comfortable with, you know, with, with that level. Not everybody, you know, wants to be that

[00:19:03] level three or that, you know, that lead person though. I think a lot of times we want to push

[00:19:07] everybody into that, but realize we can't have a whole office of chiefs, right?

[00:19:11] Yeah. That's a good point.

[00:19:14] So I think just having a, like a bigger understanding of what, what that actually looks like. And I

[00:19:21] always pull it back to the trades, you know, when you think about the, uh, I think the, the, uh,

[00:19:26] electrical or electrician, uh, you know, the electrical industry is such a, is such a good

[00:19:30] one when you kind of think about their, how they move people along. And again, going back to that

[00:19:35] career thing, I know I'm on a little rant here about that, but that's, you know, it's good.

[00:19:39] I think it's just a good way to think about that. If you want to think about how do we keep

[00:19:43] employees and how do we keep them longer than two to three years? And I especially believe with the

[00:19:48] younger generation, they got to know that there's a purpose for them or they're just, they're going

[00:19:52] to keep moving on. It isn't, it isn't just about the pay either. They want to know that, that there's

[00:19:58] substance to what they're doing.

[00:20:00] And you have to be plugged into their goals. Like what is their goal? What do they want to accomplish?

[00:20:05] Do people want to be the top 20% or just kind of the middle 70 or, you know, where's,

[00:20:11] what are their desires and where do they want to grow? So, um, what do you see as the main

[00:20:18] constraints with a startup practice? You know, I mean, especially today you're coming out with

[00:20:24] typically a lot of debt, um, you know, prices since COVID have gone way up. Uh, so obviously

[00:20:31] there's financial constraints, but what do you see is the main constraints that it kind

[00:20:36] of holds that startup practice back?

[00:20:39] Probably the biggest hurdle in getting started is finding the right location. And, you know,

[00:20:44] I always say, you know, we work with clients from, you know, demographics to doors open

[00:20:49] and then through that first year. And if I have an opportunity to meet with a client when they

[00:20:55] are actually getting started and, you know, before they've engaged even with a commercial broker,

[00:21:00] we spend a lot of time working on the demographic component of it because, you know, you, I think

[00:21:06] it's so easy to be like, ah, I think this is going to be a good spot. It just feels good. I like the

[00:21:11] vibe of the area, you know, this, that, or the other. And then you go out and you pull these demographics

[00:21:16] and you're like, wow, you're telling me you want to have this real boutique-y practice, but,

[00:21:20] you know, do you realize the median income is 70,000? Um, you know, and you know, we've got a less

[00:21:26] than 50% ownership in the area. And, you know, and I think what's important is if we can kind of

[00:21:33] identify and help doctors figure out that, that demographic component and make sure that we're

[00:21:38] putting them into the right spot from there, I think kind of the hurdles of getting the loan,

[00:21:46] getting the equipment, getting the office design that can all work itself out. We know right now

[00:21:51] that I'm going to quote for 2024, where we're at. Banks will easily lend 750 to 850 for a startup.

[00:21:59] So, you know, and I, I joke that it's kind of like getting, um, you know, candy on Halloween.

[00:22:04] It's pretty easy to get that money. Surprisingly, it's actually easier now than it was even 10 years

[00:22:10] ago, which is nuts to me. But so, so getting the loan, isn't the issue, getting the build out and,

[00:22:16] you know, all of that is just establishing the right area. And then I think from there,

[00:22:20] it's hiring the right team and then making sure that we've got good marketing strategies,

[00:22:25] because like I'm always telling my, my docs, you know, in this first year, it is all about

[00:22:30] brand awareness. We need people to be aware that you're here. And if they can't find you on the web,

[00:22:37] you don't have a good website with good SEO. If you don't have good marketing and it can't just be

[00:22:42] one channel of marketing, you really need to do them all. Um, that is what's going to make the

[00:22:48] difference between you hitting your first year goals or not hitting your first year goals.

[00:22:52] And then I think as the practice gets open and they're going through it, I think it's for a doctor

[00:22:58] being careful with, you know, they still have to pay for all of the things, right? You know,

[00:23:03] they still have all those fixed expenses. So even though it's easy to be like, Oh, Hey,

[00:23:08] you know, I'll get everybody started with $99 down and 99 a month. That's great for an existing

[00:23:13] practice. Not great for a startup when you've got 20 to 25,000 in fixed expenses that you have to

[00:23:18] figure out how to come up with. And you've got 75,000 in working capital for the year. So,

[00:23:23] you know, I think just being so much more expensive on the front. Yeah.

[00:23:27] Yeah. So I think just being really strategizing through that and helping them again, helping them.

[00:23:34] I always talk about this as being the unsexy side of, you know, of the business is helping them

[00:23:40] understand that backside of it. Not only do you have the forward facing great patient experience,

[00:23:45] you know, it's all fun in the office. Now you've got to deal with what is your QuickBooks look like?

[00:23:50] And are you reconciling your accounts? And, you know, are you doing what you need to do to keep

[00:23:54] yourself safe so that you hit those numbers so that the AR grows and then you're moving into that

[00:23:59] next year? It sounds like so much. What do you and your team help with within all of that? I mean,

[00:24:06] obviously you can advise, but if you're going to roll up your sleeves and really get your hands

[00:24:11] dirty, what does that look like? Like if I were to come to you, I'm doing a startup. What are some

[00:24:17] of the key things that your team would help me with? All of it. I know it's crazy. We literally

[00:24:24] do everything that we just talked about. So on the front side of it, we're helping them through,

[00:24:29] you know, demographics to helping them find their brokers and their loans, figuring out their budget

[00:24:35] to determining equipment and how is that going to fit into the budget, into space design,

[00:24:42] then into operating systems. Are you going to use a Mac? Are you going to use a PC? What works better?

[00:24:48] All of that. And then when we get in to getting ready to open, then, okay, you probably never hired

[00:24:54] an employee before. Do you know how to write an Indeed ad? Do you know how to do interviews? How do

[00:24:59] we do an offer letter? Okay. Do you know how to set up your handbook? Right now we got to train. Do you

[00:25:04] know what to do when a patient comes in? So then it's just moving in and training on all core areas

[00:25:10] once we get doors open to make sure that all of those fundamental core systems are in place so that

[00:25:18] the doctor, you know, is just set up and ready to go by the end of that first year. And they've hit

[00:25:23] their financial goals. They've hit their marketing goals and they're just really set and solid because

[00:25:29] my goal as a consultant, and I know this almost sounds backwards probably is I don't want clients

[00:25:35] tethered to me from here until 20 years from now. I want to give them really good fundamental systems

[00:25:42] and know that when they're ready, when they're ready to move to that next level, which I get calls all the

[00:25:46] time, usually year four or five with a startup. And they're like, okay, Jill, you know, we're about a

[00:25:52] 2 million plus practice now and we, you know, we're ready to move. We need to get better systems

[00:25:58] in place. We're ready to do this or that. You know, I love those calls because I know that they've been,

[00:26:02] the foundation was there and now we're ready to, you know, train and just move right on to that,

[00:26:08] that next, that next level. But back to your original question, we do work in all of those areas

[00:26:14] because if a doctor doesn't understand even how to set up their chart of accounts and their QuickBooks,

[00:26:20] it can be disastrous if they, you know, if they don't realize that their money that they're

[00:26:25] collecting, you know, for those down payments isn't actually hitting their bank account. And I can tell

[00:26:30] you, I have had multiple doctors that they just didn't know to look. They just didn't know to look.

[00:26:37] Yeah. You don't know what you don't know.

[00:26:39] No. Uh-uh.

[00:26:40] Yeah. At what point do you see leadership come into play? You know, I can kind of relate with this in my

[00:26:46] own business. I was a really good technician. You know, I could do all the work and I could design

[00:26:52] and take photos and edit video and, you know, place ads and all this stuff. But then as the team

[00:26:57] started to grow, the weak link was leadership. And I kind of had to shift from doing all the things to

[00:27:05] stepping back, letting the team do it and learning how to lead. But I see this every day in orthodontic

[00:27:12] practices where they're kind of at that break point. Yeah. And there's a lot of frustration

[00:27:17] around that because, you know, orthodontist is already so busy. They have to be hands-on within

[00:27:24] the business. But at a certain point, you really have to focus on building up leaders and knowing

[00:27:31] where to spend your time and managing that and protecting that carefully. Where do you see that

[00:27:36] come into play? We touch on it a bit as we're getting going in this first year. You know,

[00:27:42] you know, something as simple as writing out your values and, you know, you know, just,

[00:27:48] just having an understanding of values and then value-based decision-making and how that will work

[00:27:53] and impact you in your practice and having an understanding of what does it mean, you know,

[00:27:58] when you think about experience and, you know, managing a team member, because, you know, again,

[00:28:03] most of the time, most, most docs have never even had to be in a position where they're over somebody,

[00:28:08] where they have to run up against somebody. And, you know, so we do coaching along the way with that,

[00:28:15] but definitely not leadership like what you're talking about. And I personally think,

[00:28:22] even looking at myself in business, I think you really start to understand the importance of that

[00:28:29] at about year four or five in a practice where you can't just coast anymore and you can't be Superman

[00:28:35] or Superwoman. And I think, you know, in our first years, I think all business owners are, we're very

[00:28:41] much, we've got that Superwoman, Superman complex, right? You know, I can do it all. I can keep track

[00:28:45] of it all. And there comes this tipping point or this breaking point where you really have to trust your

[00:28:51] team. Again, I'm going to use that, you know, who, you know, we have to trust our who's,

[00:28:56] you know, and hopefully you have put those in place. But I think it's a very difficult thing

[00:29:02] because it takes the doctor, it takes that, that work, that interpersonal work as a business owner

[00:29:09] to constantly be working to be better. You know, yeah, you're tired, but are you reading business

[00:29:15] books? Are you getting out there and exposing yourselves to, um, you know, different trains

[00:29:22] of thought, different podcasts, different, you know, things that help you be a leader? Because

[00:29:27] ultimately I think if you cannot be a good leader, you just will not have a great practice.

[00:29:33] Yeah, you're tapped.

[00:29:34] Yeah. And, and I think there's a point where I think you could make the argument, well,

[00:29:39] you could eventually put somebody in place to be that leader, but you have to be making a pretty

[00:29:46] good amount of money to have somebody in place to really be able to, to do that for you.

[00:29:51] Um, then you have to lead that person, you know?

[00:29:54] Exactly. It's, it's still, it still has to happen. And so I would love to say that,

[00:30:00] you know, it, it, it's, it happens earlier. I can look back and say, gosh, I wish even me,

[00:30:07] you know, when I look back at the Jill 18 years ago is very different than the Jill,

[00:30:11] you know, now, and I hope to be very different than who I am 10 years from now, another 18 years

[00:30:16] from now, but I commit myself to doing the work though. And I think those of you who do the work,

[00:30:22] you know, it, it, it really is. And it's just little things, little nuggets. It's not a whole

[00:30:28] book. You may read the whole book and you may pull one little thing out of it and be like, ah,

[00:30:33] that was, that was the, you know, the turning point to this next thing to opening my eyes up to this or

[00:30:39] that. So I think it's a ever, ever growing, you know, process. And, and I think, you know,

[00:30:46] being willing to adapt and just know that you cannot do it all. You can't, you'll be your own

[00:30:50] bottleneck. Yeah. Adaptability is huge. Yeah. So kind of nearing the end, this has been an awesome

[00:30:56] discussion, but when you think back over the past 18 years and maybe there's one story, I know you

[00:31:04] probably have tons, but the, the one story that's like this story, this office, this doctor really

[00:31:12] represents why we do what we do, you know, and you don't have to share names or anything, but what,

[00:31:18] paint that picture for us, you know, what is that, that story, maybe that situation and, and how that

[00:31:24] doctor office team kind of grew with you guys? I don't think I'm going to pick it at one, but, um,

[00:31:30] for, for us and, um, I, I think this will answer your question. Every year I have between one and

[00:31:42] two, um, some, uh, we might end up with three this year, um, but practices that, um, that hit a million

[00:31:49] bucks. Um, you know, they, they do a million dollars in their first year and that is a, and, and I,

[00:31:57] and I say that, um, to, to answer your question, what I have seen consistently with my practices

[00:32:04] that hit that, and I have a lot that come really close. So, you know, it's, it's almost like this

[00:32:09] internal joke with a lot of my docs, like I'm going to be the one, no, I'm going to be the one,

[00:32:13] you know, we have a lot of competition. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, we have a lot that, you know,

[00:32:18] are in that seven to 800 mark, but you know, to, to hit a million or over a million. Um,

[00:32:23] and what I consistently see with at least our group is that I've got doctors that are very aware

[00:32:31] of their vision and where they're going. They have done the work and put in the time to commit to what

[00:32:40] it takes to just doing everything and trusting the process, just trusting that I have, there isn't a

[00:32:49] single place that I can slack on. I can't be like, yeah, well, I'm going to work at my associateship

[00:32:54] job and then I'm going to try and come in four days here, you know, four hours here and two hours

[00:32:58] here and an hour here and think that that's going to work. You know, they, they have, they have seen

[00:33:04] the vision, they have understood, you know, the assignment and they have executed from start to finish

[00:33:10] and, and they're very self aware of the learning that they need to do. So it wasn't like Jill just

[00:33:18] spoon feed me everything. And you know, that way, I mean, they, they did the work to be engaged,

[00:33:24] to have the conversations, to go through the training, to be committed all the way. And I think,

[00:33:30] you know, that is just such a fun thing to see, um, because it becomes very apparent in the,

[00:33:37] they're, they're just constant constants that I see with my docs that, that hit those numbers.

[00:33:42] They've got very similar traits and it's not that, oh, well, they're just smarter than the other ones

[00:33:47] or they, you know, cause I mean, heck every, every orthodontist out there is top was top of their

[00:33:52] dental class. Right. You know, so it's, it's not that it's not that it's more just, they really

[00:34:00] understood that it took and it will take the hard work in, you know, in doing it. And you just can't

[00:34:06] sit back and think that it's going to come to you. Yeah. It can't be one foot in. Yeah. No.

[00:34:12] And I, I see the people who commit to the process, uh, kind of stay humble and, and want to grow and

[00:34:21] listen to people who can help them grow. They take action and they really fall in love with the

[00:34:26] journey versus being so stuck on, I've got to make it to this outcome. And then you see, sometimes

[00:34:33] people just come up with excuses of, well, this person did this or, you know, it should have worked

[00:34:40] out like this. And, and a resilient person who, you know, I think that's who it takes to hit that

[00:34:46] million dollars in the first year. They will look at maybe failures, setbacks as feedback and what's

[00:34:53] the learning lesson here. And how can I, how can I take this to not make the same mistake again

[00:34:59] and really grow from this situation versus complain? You know, we've all done it. We've

[00:35:05] all blamed this or that for our, our business. But I think the people who continue to grow and,

[00:35:12] you know, the people who look at things more optimistically or find the positive in a situation,

[00:35:18] you can just keep growing. You can literally be wherever you want to be. And we've seen this even

[00:35:24] within orthodontics, you know, the people who want to build these huge practices, they can't,

[00:35:29] you know, and if they want to stay very boutique and really focus on profitability, they can do that

[00:35:37] too. So you, you can kind of create whatever you want to create if you commit to the process and

[00:35:43] nobody's going to do it for you. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I think you're, you're, you're so right,

[00:35:48] right on. And, and what, what you just said, I mean, that, that's exactly it. Those,

[00:35:52] those attributes that you just see those, you know, very consistently. And I, you know,

[00:35:57] I think about again, because I, I'm pretty sure we're going to have three hit this year and for all

[00:36:03] intents and purposes, you know, most people were screaming about how horrible 2024 was, right.

[00:36:08] You know, we've heard it over and over. Oh, it wasn't a great year. Oh, this, that, and the other.

[00:36:12] And to think we're going to, I'm pretty sure we'll have three hit this year by, by the end of our

[00:36:17] year. I, you know, I go again, that's, that's a lot of just hard work, you know, doing what they

[00:36:22] need to do. And I always tell my docs, you know, take a minute anytime we get to an end of a contract.

[00:36:27] And I always say, okay, I just want you to take a minute and look back because I think one of the

[00:36:32] biggest disservices we do to ourselves as owners, um, and you know, business owners is to, we're always

[00:36:41] looking ahead and we never take a chance to like really revel in what we've done. Um, you know,

[00:36:46] it's always like, Oh, I got it now. It's the next thing. It's the next thing. And I always like to,

[00:36:50] you know, have an end of the year, uh, you know, meeting with my docs and I'm like, okay, now I

[00:36:54] just want you to, you know, I want you to look back and go, we started at zero. Like you had no

[00:36:59] patience. Nobody knew your name. Nobody. I mean like you had nothing, nothing. And now look at the

[00:37:06] number that you're at there. You didn't think you were going to do this and you did it. And now next year,

[00:37:10] we're, we're just going to double that, you know, and it's, it's just such a fun thing to like,

[00:37:15] you know, let them just kind of sit in that for a minute, you know, no matter where, no matter what,

[00:37:19] what number they hit, but it's especially exciting when we have those, those big numbers and they're

[00:37:24] like, yeah, you're right. I did do that. And I'm like, yes, you did. Doggone it. Now celebrate

[00:37:28] yourself. Yeah. What a moment, you know, that's incredible to be able to celebrate that with the

[00:37:34] business owner. So, so cool. Well, for those watching or listening, how can people get in touch

[00:37:40] with you? Sure. Sure. So, um, my, my business is Jill Allen and associates. Uh, you can go to our

[00:37:47] website. That's probably the easiest way. www.practiceresultswithans.com. Um, you can just

[00:37:56] pop right on, uh, talk to Jill, fill out a form. It'll take you right to my, uh, zoom link and we

[00:38:02] will be doing a call. Um, if you're ever, I mean, they've got this great podcast, but if you ever want

[00:38:07] to, you know, listen to one that's a little more geared towards startups, I have a podcast called

[00:38:11] Hey Docs. Um, you can pop onto that at any point as well. Those are probably the two easiest ways

[00:38:16] to, to reach out. Awesome. Well, this has been so fun. I'm glad you were able to come on.

[00:38:21] Yes. Thank you for having me. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you.

[00:38:25] Thank you.