Fishbein Orthodontics COO Reveals The Secret To Growing Your Practice

[00:00:00] Welcome, you're listening to the GrowOrtho Podcast presented by HIP. This podcast is dedicated

[00:00:07] to orthodontist who want to stand strong in their market and be leaders in their community.

[00:00:13] Now onto today's show.

[00:00:16] So, Amanda Floyd, thanks so much for being here today. I really appreciate it.

[00:00:20] My pleasure. I'm happy to be here. I can't believe after all these years that we've worked

[00:00:23] together. This is my first time doing your podcast.

[00:00:25] I know. I know. It's crazy. I think there -- well, there's one interview that I leaked

[00:00:29] as a podcast, but I leaked it like years after.

[00:00:33] Yeah. And like originally I chopped it up and was like, I'm going to post these on social.

[00:00:39] So, it's the first official podcast.

[00:00:41] You know what's funny about that interview? I was thinking this morning. I was doing some

[00:00:44] my personal development time and my reading time. And I was remembering that interview.

[00:00:50] I think it was five years ago. And I was thinking back to it and the amount of growth

[00:00:55] that the both of us have had since then. Crazy. And if I looked at myself in that moment and

[00:01:00] you, I think we both thought, wow, we're really doing so well right now in this moment.

[00:01:05] And five years later, I look back and like, it's crazy. I've come a long way.

[00:01:09] I mean, I hope the next five years is like that. I always want to be looking at myself

[00:01:16] as somebody who isn't the most accomplished. I don't -- I always see what are the opportunities.

[00:01:22] And I hope that we're sitting down in five years thinking like, man, we could have never

[00:01:26] guessed that we'd be here now. Because that's what it's about.

[00:01:30] The minute anybody thinks that they have succeeded, your career starts to die. There is never

[00:01:35] a day that you're not going to learn more and have to put in the work to learn more.

[00:01:39] So just give a brief intro of yourself. I think most people watching are listening now. Let's

[00:01:44] just say there's one who doesn't. I tell this just a little bit about you.

[00:01:49] As so I have been in the orthodontic industry for 25 years now. This is my 25th year this

[00:01:55] year. Started very young. I've worked in every role in the, in the practice. I've always

[00:02:01] had a major passion for it. I love this industry. I love the people aspect of it.

[00:02:08] You know, Ben Vichmann bought our practice. I was working at the practice he bought a

[00:02:11] little over 10 years ago and we just clicked right from the start. We have a great relationship.

[00:02:17] We grew, you know, a very small practice. It was about a million dollars then into what

[00:02:22] it is now. So we we had about seven team members back then. We have a little over a

[00:02:25] hundred now, and yeah, just I think the best part of what we do is, you know, we're able

[00:02:31] to serve so many patients, provide an affordable smile, you know, but a quality experience

[00:02:37] to our community. And that was always the, that was always the goal and the mission of

[00:02:41] this practice. On my side of it, it's, you know, the best thing that I do is being able

[00:02:47] to provide career opportunities and leadership opportunities to someone who would not have

[00:02:53] traditionally thought they were able to move in that direction.

[00:02:58] Yeah. Let's kind of kick it off and talk about what you're seeing. I'm kind of curious

[00:03:04] because we hinted at it with at fundamentals of just what does orthodontics look like this

[00:03:09] year? So many people are kind of in freak out mode. Yeah, for sure. And things are down

[00:03:16] and you know, you seem kind of making rash decisions. What are you seeing and what are

[00:03:21] you noticing? Pretty much industry wide. We're seeing a decrease. I mean, what we have

[00:03:26] is right, we came off a COVID year, which was an unprecedented year for everyone, you

[00:03:31] know, a seven week closure. Coming back from a seven week closure, we were all killing

[00:03:35] it because there was just so much of a backlog to get through. So we had a really great year

[00:03:40] in 2020 and then we had 21, which you can't, you almost have to take that year out. This

[00:03:46] is what I tell my clients, almost like pretend 21 never happened. Look at everything on a

[00:03:51] three year caggard. And if you're measuring it that way, you're most likely still growing.

[00:03:56] But if you're measuring it compared to 2021, everyone's down. I don't know anyone that's

[00:04:00] not down unless it was a brand new startup that just started marketing.

[00:04:03] Now there are some outliers, Jesse Carmen, people that had never traditionally done marketing

[00:04:10] that are getting into it now, but the vast majority certainly down.

[00:04:15] Yeah. What do you, when you talk to people and maybe some of them are kind of in freak

[00:04:19] out mode a little bit, what do you tell them to hopefully maybe calm them down and get them

[00:04:25] to think about the future. And obviously any business is going to be highs and lows and

[00:04:31] you're going to have to experience that. Even with orthodontics, which is supposed to grow

[00:04:35] like crazy, you're going to have years where it doesn't.

[00:04:39] Yeah. I mean, I think that right now is just, it's not a time to be decreasing budgets significantly,

[00:04:46] luckily with Ben, that's just not how he operates. We're still putting as much into

[00:04:50] marketing, if not more, we actually hired a fourth full time marketing person this past

[00:04:54] year, even though we're down just because we need to get ahead of it. So that's kind

[00:04:58] of like our first go to, if the numbers are down, we're not getting the leads we got

[00:05:04] in the past, we reach out to marketing. What do we need to do now? But I think it's just

[00:05:11] a lot of people are comparing where we are now to 21 and you can't. And so we're kind

[00:05:15] of looking at things on a day and annual basis rather than looking at it compared to where

[00:05:20] we were two years ago. So for us, we want to be producing at least 25,000 a day, every

[00:05:26] clinical day, we're not there every month right now. And it's our first time since 2016, we

[00:05:32] haven't hit those numbers. So when people are, I mean, we're still doing really well.

[00:05:36] We're still over 20. But for us to hit 25, like if you look compared to maybe 2021, we

[00:05:43] were averaging 28 to 30,000 a day. 22, we were averaging like 24. This year, I think

[00:05:49] our average would probably be about 22 to 23, which we did bring another full time provider

[00:05:54] in. And we have a brand new location, we just opened. So there are things that are going

[00:06:00] to fluctuate. But I would just say, don't take your foot off the gas with marketing.

[00:06:06] It's one of the biggest things I'm seeing people do. I'm like, why are you doing that?

[00:06:09] It's the opposite of what we should be doing.

[00:06:11] Well, you said something so interesting. We look at Amanda and the Fish Bind team and

[00:06:17] some of our, let's just say, fast growers, easy growers, I think of Harvey and Thomas

[00:06:23] as well. When things have slowed down or the economy's gotten bumpy or we're not hitting

[00:06:30] the goals that we used to, your guys mindset is, well, we need to spend more. We're not

[00:06:36] letting the throes of the day or the wind that's upon us dictate the decisions we're

[00:06:43] making right now. Because I think so many people, when goals aren't being met or productions

[00:06:48] down or new patients are down, they're making decisions around this and they're going,

[00:06:52] oh, we're not doing what we did six months ago, 12 months ago. So we need to cut. And

[00:06:58] then I almost think about like why some people like you crushed it when we opened after COVID,

[00:07:05] right? Like when we were shut down, you guys were still marketing, doing everything you

[00:07:09] could see was running consoles. I think I remember you guys did something like with

[00:07:14] the first responders and like we did a lot of marketing events, right? So when the world

[00:07:19] was shut down, you and like I think about Farina as well.

[00:07:23] Efros. Efros. We're like the mindset was almost like this is a time that we can like

[00:07:28] buy market share at a discount because everybody else is retreating and crawling under a rock.

[00:07:36] It's kind of like the stock market like buy low sell high.

[00:07:39] We also had so many people, right? Like we didn't want to furlough our team. So we paid

[00:07:43] our team the entire time we were shut down. We paid their full salary. And so, you know,

[00:07:47] like, okay, we have at that point, I think we had 85 team members, 85 people, there's

[00:07:52] nothing to do outside of, you know, assign two people to answer phones every day. Not

[00:07:56] a lot of calls coming in, first couple of weeks were busy because we had thousands of

[00:08:00] patients to reschedule over that period. But we're like, all right, well, the deal that

[00:08:06] we made was we're going to pay a hundred percent of your salary. We were going to ask people

[00:08:10] that are salaried to work one day a week. And then these, we don't have many salaried,

[00:08:16] people like seven or eight. And so they would work one day a week and we'd assign like

[00:08:19] marketing events, team meetings. We did, we redid, you guys, I think did the same. But

[00:08:24] all of our training materials, checklist, the Google Drive, I just cleaned everything

[00:08:27] up that had been pending. But yeah, a lot of it was just community events and marketing

[00:08:32] because it's pretty cheap. People freak out about that, about getting out there in the

[00:08:34] community. They're like, well, we don't have the budget. We don't have the budget.

[00:08:38] It's so inexpensive to go to an event. And it's also so inexpensive to hire someone for

[00:08:42] marketing. And it's one of the biggest battles that I'll have with people I work with privately.

[00:08:47] They're like, well, I just, you know, I don't have the need for a marketing person. Like,

[00:08:51] you have 25 employees. How do you not have a marketing person? It's crazy to me when

[00:08:55] we had 25 employees, we had two marketing people. Right. Yeah. I mean, we're at a hundred

[00:08:59] now with four. And it's like Dr. Ben says all the time, it's like, but what's what's the

[00:09:03] cost of an empty chair? Exactly. You know, what's what's the cost of an empty new patient

[00:09:08] consult? Now, maybe everybody doesn't do 20, 25, 30 exams in a day like you guys do,

[00:09:14] but even if I had six or seven exam slots, you know, the way my brain works, and I'd

[00:09:20] actually curious on your perspective of this, but you know, let's say, let's just say average

[00:09:24] office converts 70% or so of consults. And so let's say I can do eight consults in a

[00:09:31] day, but I'm only seeing three or four in a day. Right? At a 70% conversion, if I'm booking

[00:09:38] consults every hour, like what's an orthodontist time worth? Two grand an hour, three grand

[00:09:43] an hour, five grand an hour, Ben's time might be, 20 grand an hour. And for every open slot,

[00:09:51] what does that cost in the business? What does it actually cost to go? I don't know,

[00:09:56] bring lunch to the firehouse, for example. But are people even thinking about that? Like

[00:10:00] when you work with do they, I mean, largely, we don't see people thinking that way, and

[00:10:06] I think it doesn't make sense. Like the 10 grand, ah, it's like, but yeah, you got five

[00:10:12] open slots, right? That could be produced five, six grand a spa. Some do to answer your

[00:10:17] question. The rock stars do, but even I see some rock stars like we, we work with someone

[00:10:22] mutually you and I both and doesn't have a full time marketing person, he's crushing

[00:10:26] it, crushing it. But I'm like, look at how much you're leaving on a table. You're doing

[00:10:31] zero community marketing right now. You could have and I showed him our referral breakdown

[00:10:36] where it's like 30% patient referrals, 30% community, and then 30% online. I'm like,

[00:10:43] when I look at this and I look at your practice, you're leaving 30% out in the community. Not

[00:10:47] even trying. It's also interesting because when we go to offices, a lot of them are in

[00:10:53] business parks. So the one we just got back from, I mean, there was and that was New York

[00:10:58] City. So there's probably thousands of businesses, but just in his direct block already I'm seeing

[00:11:04] like 20 that you should be talking to these people. I walked in, hey, how many of these

[00:11:09] have you talked to? I start rattling off the brands. Oh, none of them. I'm like, this

[00:11:13] is. I think traditionally in orthonics, it was something that was never done. And we,

[00:11:18] you know, when we opened our first, uh, de novo and pace in 2016, it was one of those things

[00:11:22] like I was out there doing the marketing for us back then. I was, I was like our marketing

[00:11:26] person and I went into every local business, not just dental offices. So I'm like, look

[00:11:31] at all these hair slons and nail salons and tanning slons and restaurants, little locally

[00:11:36] on own spots. And so we would bring in what we call these neighborhood cards and give

[00:11:41] them, you know, they can hand them out to their customer base, like 500 off treatment

[00:11:45] or whatever call to action. You know, you want to put on there, but we've continued

[00:11:50] that moving forward every time we open a new office, we'll visit every local dentist.

[00:11:55] Anytime our marketing reps have nothing else to do, they're out visiting local businesses.

[00:12:00] So our Cantoma office, Hannah had emailed this past week. She said, I had a free day. So

[00:12:03] I went and visited all the local businesses around, around the location. Like, yeah,

[00:12:07] that's, that's, it's like a goldmine. Yeah, courting the dentist is not dead. Right.

[00:12:12] So the dentist and the little business. Yeah, everybody. But, I mean, like, just looking

[00:12:17] at the bread and butter from the general dentist. So many people, Oh, no, I don't want to do

[00:12:21] that. You know, they're doing it. They're doing a, they're doing a visa line now. It's

[00:12:25] like, but they're doing like what three cases a month? So we'll take that. We actually do

[00:12:29] an invisible on a vent for the general dentist in our community. They're like, their biggest

[00:12:32] cheerleader. Yeah, we're like, let me teach you how we'll show you. We'll show you how

[00:12:35] to do some easy cases and just send us your hard ones. Yeah.

[00:12:38] It was one of the, actually one of the more interesting things Dr. Ben had said in this

[00:12:42] talk, he was like, everybody's like, you know, shunning the dentist for doing this. And Dr.

[00:12:47] Ben's like, no, we're going to be their biggest cheerleader. Right. Teach him a couple basic

[00:12:51] mechanics. Because if I can, you know, be their biggest supporter and help you get an

[00:12:55] extra two, three cases a month, the complex ones, who are they going to refer to? The one

[00:13:01] that's helping me out. And then when they maybe can't get the result, the patient ones,

[00:13:06] send them over. I'm going to send them over. Right. You know, it's a difference in an

[00:13:09] abundance mindset and a scarcity mindset. It's the same with us. And we have so many

[00:13:14] offices that don't want to implement whitening. They don't want to do it. They're going to

[00:13:17] lose the referrals. Like women do lightning for four years, I think. I got a great story

[00:13:23] on this from our trip to New York. I'm not going to say any names, but if they're watching

[00:13:28] this, you might know who you are. So the dentist that we visit, the story I was telling you.

[00:13:35] Yeah. So whatever he's like, so what'd you guys do last night? And I was like, Oh, we

[00:13:40] went out to dinner with a couple of our orthodontists here in the city. And he's like, Oh, who is

[00:13:45] it? And I was like, Oh, it's Dr. So and so and so he goes, Oh, Dr. So and so you'll never

[00:13:50] believe this. I used to refer all my ortho to him. And I was like, and why don't you

[00:13:56] anymore? I said, one, why don't you anymore? And two, why did you choose him? And he goes,

[00:14:01] Well, it's interesting. They actually never came into my office. They never corded me.

[00:14:05] I never met them. I did my own research, found out who's close, who's got a pretty office,

[00:14:10] who's got cool doctors, and I chose them based on their reviews, their location, blah, blah,

[00:14:14] and just started sending them patience. I sent all my ortho to these guys. He goes,

[00:14:21] I'm not, I don't need gifts and donuts and cookies. But it would be nice to like just

[00:14:27] get like an email or a call and a knowledge man. Hey, Luke came in. He's awesome. Thanks

[00:14:33] for the case. He goes over the year to years I referred to them. I didn't get a single

[00:14:39] phone call email dropped by nothing. He's like, I don't need the gifts, but I got zero acknowledgement

[00:14:45] or correspondence. And I stopped referring to them. What a loss. That's a baller dinner

[00:14:49] office. You say to you. Yeah, like a lot of patience. And I'm like, this person they

[00:14:55] were referring to is a client of ours. And I was talking to Luke, and I'm like, I mean,

[00:15:00] are you surprised? Like we were at dinner with them. They're like, Oh, we haven't visited

[00:15:05] that as in eight years. Also I really we visit them every day. Yeah, but we'll we'll see

[00:15:14] obviously when we turn on campaigns, you're going to get some dental type leads, people

[00:15:19] that need dental work. There needs to be a referral system both ways exactly. So it's

[00:15:25] funny for us, you know, with the size we are now, right? We're a bigger referrer to a general

[00:15:33] dentist than they could ever be to us. Not to sound like I'm not trying to sound cocky

[00:15:37] by saying that. It's just the the numbers speak for themselves. So for our team, we

[00:15:42] were just in a call center meeting on Friday. And I'm sitting there with our 10 call center

[00:15:47] employees. And I still like to go to the team meetings. I want to hear what's being said.

[00:15:50] I like to, you know, throw a little motivation in, give them a couple podcast recommendations

[00:15:55] or book. So I'm like, you never know who's going to be your next rock star. And so I

[00:15:58] still continue to cultivate these relationships. But I'm in there, and you know, we're going

[00:16:03] through the PCC notes. And they're like, okay, so we're going role playing, right? And we're

[00:16:09] like, all right, somebody calls and you know, you're setting up a new patient appointment.

[00:16:13] And then at the end, they're like, do you guys, do crowns or whatever? Whatever the question

[00:16:18] is. And so our team members, like, we just tell them, no, we don't do that. We'll go

[00:16:23] ahead and cancel your appointment. And, you know, let us know if you ever need us again.

[00:16:28] I'm like, no, okay, first of all, we don't cancel anyone's appointment. Like, are are

[00:16:34] we serious? No, we, we continue the appointment. We'll go ahead and see them because even if

[00:16:38] they're not a patient right now, eventually they or someone they know are going to need

[00:16:43] orthodontics. So if we give them a great experience, even if they don't need treatment, that's

[00:16:49] great. That's all we need. But secondly, this is a great opportunity for us to continue

[00:16:55] solidifying those relationships with these dentists in the community that we have great

[00:17:00] relationships with. We need to send them patients. Please don't just hang up and say, let me know

[00:17:04] when, you know, if you need help finding a dentist like, no, here's our top five people

[00:17:07] we want you to refer to. So I think being in those little meetings like that, though,

[00:17:11] I learn little things in our own practice. And I'm like, oh, no, not like that.

[00:17:15] Yeah. I mean, the amount of people we work with that like this, the moment somebody says

[00:17:21] on the phone, like, I haven't had a cleaning in a year or I need an implant or I need

[00:17:28] a filling. I mean, they can't get off the phone fast enough. I know that's crazy. I'm

[00:17:32] like, they still have family. Like, and you never know, like they might have something

[00:17:36] so quick and then start treatment. Yeah. And I don't want them in my office to piggyback

[00:17:41] off that. We'll ask them, well, what's your referral process? Oh, let's say they have

[00:17:46] one. A lot of them don't. A lot of them do just get off the phone. But if they do, I

[00:17:50] say, well, does the dentist know that you sent them that lead? Oh, no, we don't we don't

[00:17:55] talk to them. We just like hang up and call. Hey, just gave a patient your number if they

[00:17:59] call here. Right. I mean, you could even make a spreadsheet, share it with them, sign a

[00:18:04] Baa with them, whatever you want to do. But you need to actually track that because otherwise

[00:18:10] if it's like out of sight, out of mind. Right. Yeah. You know, but kind of shifting gears,

[00:18:17] another thing that we've seen a lot of lately and you know, we're trying to pick up on these

[00:18:22] false beliefs or limitations or things that really hinder growth is to scale. I have to

[00:18:30] buy more locations even though the four locations I already have are under producing.

[00:18:36] Session and so what do you tell somebody who has too many locations they to his point with chair time and you guys are the ones who kind of taught us that you have all this empty chair time your buildings are just turned off for two three days a week.

[00:18:54] So I think there's different ways to look at this and certainly been an out over the years have had differences and opinion on this but for me it's numbers I'm a numbers person if we're not producing at least 25,000 per day.

[00:19:07] We're not going to open another day.

[00:19:08] Doesn't make any sense to why would we spend money to your payroll costs are about 23 25% overall we're not going to pay the team to be there another day when we could produce just as much in one day as to.

[00:19:21] But I think that if you're doing well and you've already created a brand that's working going and open another location makes sense even if you're not going to hit that 25 per day or whatever it is let's say the average is 15,000 per day I don't even know what it is anymore right now but I would just

[00:19:38] you know you don't want to open another location just to open another location.

[00:19:42] If you have room to produce another one two million in the locations you're in why spread your resources?

[00:19:49] That's what we see all the time like Docs burned out, you know he's got to travel with the team he's gotten associate that's only there one day a week and it's like.

[00:20:01] And the associate doesn't want to do as much as he does right so let's just double down because typically what we see is people are so under producing with the locations they have.

[00:20:12] And this is a common thing we'll hear if I could just get my locations to 2 million even their main established location I'm like you're thinking way too small right we get this location to 4 million listen we've got one location to 10 million.

[00:20:26] Right as a limit I mean yeah I mean it's a beast of location but.

[00:20:30] But relatively if you don't have what twelve chairs and three console rooms.

[00:20:36] I mean what a typical office that has five six seven chairs could be three days three days a week three four million easy right right I mean that should be.

[00:20:46] Pretty simple.

[00:20:47] We'll have people in highly populated areas tell us that that's not pot nobody's doing that here I'm like.

[00:20:54] No they are.

[00:20:55] It's just ain't.

[00:20:56] We have a friend down in Miami that was producing like seven eight million five chairs seventeen hundred square feet.

[00:21:03] They were bursting at the seams bursting.

[00:21:06] I mean the built a new location now and they're crushing it like come on we produced I think it was seven million the year before we renovated Pensacola yeah and you guys saw what it looked like then it was insane we had people falling through the ceilings mid construction.

[00:21:19] All kinds of crazy things happening the worst looking office you could possibly imagine and people are still signing up every day to start it was actually mind blowing.

[00:21:28] Mmm I was doing a residency talk on Friday I was at West Virginia University.

[00:21:36] And this one of the residences like you know if I'm really going to be a you know direct to consumer type of practice like I have you know the office is probably has to be like gorgeous.

[00:21:48] Mmm and I was like well yes but let me tell you this story about my friends Amanda and Dr. Ben.

[00:21:58] They were producing orthodontics with people falling through the ceiling with exposed wiring and walls.

[00:22:03] Did you have patients like sign in the plywood?

[00:22:05] Yeah I mean honestly do.

[00:22:08] Clean modern and simple right.

[00:22:10] Clean modern and simple.

[00:22:11] You do not have to fit a fortune.

[00:22:13] In fact it's around champagne and strawberries.

[00:22:15] I got an office that's beautiful I love it.

[00:22:17] Like I love the vibe when they've brought in these you know seven figure designers to do these incredible remodels I'm like man this is nice.

[00:22:25] Does it produce more?

[00:22:26] No I mean as long as and I think like what we decided from the from the very beginning was when Ben bought the practice there was no one in this town offering affordability options so the vast majority of patients in our own community.

[00:22:43] Couldn't get orthodontic treatment.

[00:22:45] There was absolutely no way.

[00:22:46] Fifteen was the minimum, 15% was the minimum down payment, 25% if you didn't have great credit.

[00:22:52] And mind you you got to credit check of course.

[00:22:54] And when he bought the practice his mission and goal really was to be able to provide access to care to as many patients as possible without letting finances stand in the way but he wanted it to be a nice experience.

[00:23:10] He didn't want to have some you know dumpy office that felt like what traditionally would look like an affordable you know option and so I think there's ways to make it clean and nice and spend money where you need to spend money like on you know stone countertops or you know nice wood floors.

[00:23:27] But furniture you can find clean nice furniture on Wayfair.

[00:23:30] Amazon.

[00:23:31] We do it every time.

[00:23:32] So top notch experience and affordability can live in the same absolutely.

[00:23:39] And the key that ties that all together is having an incredible team.

[00:23:44] Mm hmm.

[00:23:45] Well it's like look at Chick-fil-A look at Starbucks like these are you know low ticket items but the experience a lot of times is high.

[00:23:54] Unless they're in the airport.

[00:23:55] Yeah of course.

[00:23:56] Fake Starbucks.

[00:23:58] Anything goes in the airport.

[00:23:59] But just had to make that disclaimer you know.

[00:24:01] But you guys had a vision for where the business was going to go obviously maybe not everything was on paper you guys evolved so many times we're we're asking owners doctors and they're just kind of pulling it out of you.

[00:24:18] Well I'd like to be a 2 million or you know this and it's like where is this written down or how many times do you rally your team around this.

[00:24:28] Right.

[00:24:28] I just thought about it since you asked me.

[00:24:30] Yeah.

[00:24:31] There's almost no communication.

[00:24:32] Yeah.

[00:24:33] What's funny to me too is most doctors are so terrified to talk about their production or their goals in general and I'm like you guys know Google is free everyone on your team knows how to look up what your annual production is.

[00:24:45] Mm hmm.

[00:24:46] Like literally I mean they know how many patients start every day.

[00:24:51] Yeah.

[00:24:51] They know how much you charge.

[00:24:53] Yeah.

[00:24:53] They can Google what's the traditional overhead and worth it on it.

[00:24:56] They know how much you bring home.

[00:24:58] Yeah.

[00:24:58] It's not rocket science.

[00:24:59] So the fact that people are so scared to talk about it I think it's just an archaic way of thinking about it because pre Google right like no one did know.

[00:25:06] But the information we have at our fingertips now makes it pretty easy to yeah not be as worried about it.

[00:25:14] So you guys talk about that to some level.

[00:25:17] So that's a good question.

[00:25:18] We do we talk about our goals to the team now we differentiate by department.

[00:25:23] So if we're if we're talking to the full team we're like hey guys goal today is five starts.

[00:25:28] Talk in terms of starts.

[00:25:30] Yeah.

[00:25:30] So if we're talking to the full team we'll say in different locations.

[00:25:33] Hey guys go and can't tell him at seven starts.

[00:25:35] Go in nice bills five starts and we'll talk to him like that for our managers which is

[00:25:39] our you know next level up like daily operation managers will tell them daily goals.

[00:25:44] Goal today is 24,000 goal today is 27,000 depending on where we are in the month.

[00:25:49] When we're talking to our senior leaders we'll talk about quarterly goals.

[00:25:52] Hey guys the goal for this quarter is 5.5 million or whatever it might be.

[00:25:58] And then just amongst the a couple of us we'll talk about the full annual goals but we're

[00:26:03] not really throwing out hey guys goal for this year is 24 million.

[00:26:06] Right.

[00:26:07] To the team as a whole because they don't understand.

[00:26:08] Yeah.

[00:26:09] And they definitely don't understand overhead.

[00:26:10] Right.

[00:26:11] Regardless of how its position though whether it's in starts whether it's quarterly whether

[00:26:14] it's production being focused and centered on goals with the team is part of the culture.

[00:26:22] Every single day we talk about it every single day.

[00:26:24] I mean the amount of people we talk to and it's like you either ask the doctor like

[00:26:30] have you shared these with the team?

[00:26:32] No, it's really any small business we're just focused it really does transcend and that's

[00:26:39] why so many of small businesses fail.

[00:26:42] You know over a decade I don't know if this stats true but I read on Google like 80%.

[00:26:46] Well it's had a test to be true then.

[00:26:48] I think this is a big reason why and good team members also want to know what they're

[00:26:53] going to be part of and what they're working towards.

[00:26:56] If they don't know that they just get stuck and they're a cog in the wheel and they're

[00:27:02] going to go to somewhere else.

[00:27:04] And that kind of leads into my next question or I'm assuming you're hearing from a lot

[00:27:10] of practices that they have attrition and we can't hire we can't keep people.

[00:27:14] What's your philosophy on this?

[00:27:15] Listen I had three people put last week.

[00:27:17] Three.

[00:27:18] They're all going to other local orthodontics offices.

[00:27:23] Wish you the best.

[00:27:24] We've also had three people in the last few weeks come back from leaving and going to

[00:27:29] other local offices.

[00:27:30] They do too many tabs at this office.

[00:27:32] So I'm like you know what for me when people leave I'm 100% never going to ask you and

[00:27:37] talk you into staying.

[00:27:39] If you want to leave that's part of your journey and I absolutely wish you the best.

[00:27:43] I wish you all the joy, happiness and success that there is you know in this life for you.

[00:27:47] But you're you're never going to say and I've never heard you say we have a hiring problem.

[00:27:52] Oh no, no we don't have a hiring problem.

[00:27:54] And people are so baffled by this because we don't you know we don't start people out

[00:27:59] that high.

[00:28:00] Right.

[00:28:01] We have a very clear you know hiring structure the vast majority of our patient or our team

[00:28:06] members come from directory furls they have a zero experience we're training them on the

[00:28:11] job and we start them at a very low hourly rate because we're devoting so much time

[00:28:15] and effort and energy and money into training them.

[00:28:18] But we're clear during the interview hey this is where you're going to start.

[00:28:22] This is where you're going to go in three months, six months, nine months, twelve months,

[00:28:26] eighteen months, twenty four months.

[00:28:28] We show them exactly where they'll be at each level as long as they're you know hitting

[00:28:32] the stats that we set for each level.

[00:28:35] So you have a path that you can show people and I think ninety nine point nine percent

[00:28:41] of people are attracted to that because they can see here's where I can grow.

[00:28:47] Here's the company that wants to grow me.

[00:28:49] But then they also see your culture brand values marketed maybe in some cases they've

[00:28:54] been seeing this for five years and that really helps.

[00:28:59] I think the interview process as well in a track talent and so many businesses are not

[00:29:05] thinking about this.

[00:29:06] You didn't think about it until like twenty twenty is oh we have to market and sell to

[00:29:12] talent not just our customer.

[00:29:15] Right and there's there's times for both I would say we did just do something we have

[00:29:20] never done in the history of our practice this past week.

[00:29:24] We hired we had this guy that worked for us for a couple years and I'm talking rock star

[00:29:29] like one of those guys he put it when he put his notice in like I almost cried.

[00:29:33] He was a three day week team member he was going to school I think he was pre-law sharp

[00:29:38] guy worked in the call center.

[00:29:40] Two years you work for us when he put his notice in it was one of those like moments

[00:29:44] where you're like I just lost someone that was going to be a big part of you know what

[00:29:49] we're doing here.

[00:29:51] And so we had had many conversations with this guy like hey we see you as a manager

[00:29:57] you're going to be a manager here but we were never going to have a manager that works

[00:30:01] three days a week.

[00:30:02] So when you get to a point where you're you know you're able to commit full time we would

[00:30:06] love to you know provide that opportunity for you.

[00:30:09] Well he ended up leaving going and working out in sales for a couple years and he he

[00:30:15] called us about I don't know four four five weeks ago he's like hey can I get an interview

[00:30:19] you're hired like you don't understand so he comes in and we sit across from like listen

[00:30:25] we've never done this but like we're gonna bring you back in as a manager so we hired

[00:30:30] him he started this week we announced it to our team we announced him as assistant manager

[00:30:35] while he's going through his 90 day period and then after that 90 days he will be a full

[00:30:39] manager.

[00:30:40] But you know so I've always said I would never hire someone in as a manager and I just did

[00:30:45] it for the first time and ten years of Ben and I working together.

[00:30:49] This guy did have two years prior with us and we knew you know what we wanted from him

[00:30:55] or in for him but so I guess never say never.

[00:30:58] But you know I think that it helps too that we're we're direct referrals 100% of the people

[00:31:02] are hiring and interviewing are coming from someone else that already knows either they

[00:31:07] work here someone in their family works here.

[00:31:10] My daughter Jenna for instance just she left maybe three four months ago to go work for

[00:31:16] Glen Krieger and one of his startups and she'd worked for us for probably I don't know

[00:31:21] six or seven years before that and so she left she's not here anymore and I walk in one

[00:31:27] day and there's this really big guy in Brittany's office she's interviewing I'm like who's

[00:31:31] this it's Jenna's husband's best friend and we hired him to be an assistant which he's

[00:31:36] a huge bodybuilder top guy.

[00:31:37] He's at my last adjustment.

[00:31:39] He's so good he's like he is one of the best people he's huge which is so funny because

[00:31:44] when we were sitting across from him I can't see him in clinic like I just can't I can't

[00:31:48] see that but he's one of the best assistants we've hired so all of that just to say you

[00:31:53] never know where your next great person's going to come from but if you're offering

[00:31:57] like direct referral type interviews they know what they're coming into right like this

[00:32:02] guy knew he was coming in to start for very low hourly to get training in something that

[00:32:08] he could make really good money in long term but it's going to take a little while to get

[00:32:12] there.

[00:32:13] Now right like you said you're all internal referral yeah we've had tons of people obviously

[00:32:19] come to Fish Find Fundamentals and you know they're always there the mindset is always

[00:32:26] oh well they can do that because 100 people they've got 100 but they can do that because

[00:32:31] blah blah blah.

[00:32:32] And it's a cola must be this magic kingdom yeah it's a magic kingdom right but let's

[00:32:38] go back to like way back in the day when it was just you and Dr. Ben was it always still

[00:32:45] internal referral it was so when or you were grabbing talent no we were internal referrals

[00:32:52] and people say that all the time they're like oh well it's easy for you because you

[00:32:55] guys have 100 people I'm like I remember being one of seven when he bought the practice we

[00:33:00] had seven people there's only three of us that are still here from that original seven

[00:33:06] actually I think one just retired it might just be dying and I left but the first two

[00:33:10] people we hired one was my daughter Casey and the second was Nancy who Dr. Ben had worked

[00:33:16] with at a previous practice they were both direct referrals direct relationships with

[00:33:21] the two of us the third person we hired was Eliza who was our waitress at our fancy Christmas

[00:33:29] party we had gone to on here and she had the best personality she was almost I mean she

[00:33:34] almost got me to eat lamb and I don't even eat meat I'm like you need to be a T.C.

[00:33:39] how do I get you in for a day job and so we hired her like two weeks later after that

[00:33:44] we hired Brittany who Dr. Ben knew from CrossFit so there were there were a lot of relationships

[00:33:49] that were you know we had already had and we knew we were growing we didn't have a lot

[00:33:54] of budget to hire but we knew that we were going to be growing it's hard not to grow

[00:33:58] when you were producing under a million right like at that point it's the only one way

[00:34:02] to go here but yeah so we just started now when we had our biggest growth year we had

[00:34:08] one year where we went from four million to 11 so we had a seven million growth in one

[00:34:12] year say that one more time from four million to 11 wow in one year and you can imagine like

[00:34:18] the amount of understaffed we were it wasn't even it wasn't even in the same realm of what

[00:34:23] people say oh it's I'm in a tough spot I'm like no yeah no let me tell you those days

[00:34:28] I was the man I think I was like the office manager clinical manager T.C. marketing coordinator

[00:34:33] I wore every hat but so we placed a couple of ads on indeed first time we'd ever done

[00:34:38] it we had some interviews not stellar you know not stellar but we hired one person from this

[00:34:44] interview process and I ended up having to let her go on day three wow it was just it

[00:34:48] was not the vibe you know she was she wasn't friendly to our patients and every person prior

[00:34:54] to her we had honestly handpicked to work in this practice and so we realized from that

[00:35:00] it was the only person we hired like that and the day I let her go I was like I'm not

[00:35:04] we're not doing this again pull the ads I don't want to run any indeed ads we'll ask

[00:35:08] our team that's when we started offering the referral bonus for the team members we told

[00:35:13] the team listen we really need people but we want people like you so anybody that you

[00:35:18] know friends family anyone will give you a two hundred fifty dollar bonus if you can

[00:35:22] refer someone that we hire and we've done it for years so having a hundred plus team

[00:35:29] members now makes it maybe easier because there's more people to pull from but it's

[00:35:34] you can say that but we have nine offices but it's not like that's the reason why we're

[00:35:39] able to hire all internally because it happened that way when it was yeah I know we've done

[00:35:43] it I think it's the culture that you build if you have a great culture and your team is

[00:35:48] happy at their job other people are gonna want to work there I mean people want to have

[00:35:53] a job that they enjoy I think people want to work for someone that has built a brand

[00:36:01] and exactly and a reputation and I think that we've been able to do that somebody yesterday

[00:36:06] was talking about about Dr. Ben like he's a pillar in this community he is absolutely

[00:36:11] at this point he is a pillar in this community he wasn't eight years ago right you know he

[00:36:15] was just a new guy that had just moved here from up north it was a little more at that

[00:36:19] point people taking a chance you know on us but now I think that we've built something

[00:36:25] that it's a little safer for someone to come into yeah and I think that the takeaway is

[00:36:31] it's not magic Pensacola isn't this magical fairytale place you guys just did the work

[00:36:38] and it's kind of like compounding interest you know you put money in the market or you

[00:36:42] put money in an investment you keep doing it every day like good investors they're putting

[00:36:48] money in the market every day every week every paycheck they're not touching it and it's

[00:36:52] growing growing growing growing growing well ten years later like I think that the average

[00:36:58] is you can double your money every seven years dependent on the market that's what you guys

[00:37:02] were able to do in your business but the ROI is far greater in your business because you

[00:37:08] you have all the control.

[00:37:10] But what most people

[00:37:12] miss out on is they just try to go for here. Right. And they don't do any of this foundational

[00:37:17] work. But you guys were able to do that. And that's what I always try to get people to

[00:37:22] understand about you when they come to Fundamentals and Fish Bind is you guys just didn't go from

[00:37:28] zero to hero. Yeah. It's like you were the anti hero for eight years. I'm still the anti

[00:37:34] hero. Yeah. Four years, five years. But it takes actual work. It isn't this, this magic

[00:37:41] wand. Right. No. It's a lot of work. And it's so funny for people to see now, you know,

[00:37:46] we are 10 and a half years into working together. And, you know, he works a couple days a week.

[00:37:52] We run a couple of businesses a few, honestly, and, you know, we're not in the ortho practice

[00:37:57] as much as we once were, but the old, old people remember. I mean, we live there. Like

[00:38:02] I, I had a shower in my office because I would go to the gym at five, be at the office by

[00:38:06] six, 15 A.M. Leave there most days, about 36 p.m. in the evening, never taking lunch.

[00:38:13] This was Monday through Friday. I mean, it was years of hustle and really, you know,

[00:38:19] giving it everything we had to get to the point where we were able to build leaders and create

[00:38:24] people that could run things, you know, on the day to day. But it's easy to look at it

[00:38:30] now and be like, Oh, yeah, they haven't made them like, Oh, you have no idea. Yeah, you

[00:38:33] know, only the old people really know. And I think if anybody will sit down and make

[00:38:38] a plan, make targets, maybe some of them don't make sense, which they'll figure out

[00:38:43] along the way and bring their team in on it. Right. It's been, we have budgets for everything.

[00:38:49] I think people are always so shocked to hear that. You know, we do a lot of team appreciation

[00:38:54] in our practice and it, it makes me a little sad when I see offices that don't and I work

[00:38:58] with offices. It's like they have a team meeting and they're reminding their team, hey, don't

[00:39:02] forget to bring your lunch. I'm like, Oh, okay. Okay. It's just never been one of the things

[00:39:09] that been wanted to save money on. He wanted to show team appreciation, even when he wasn't

[00:39:15] bringing a paycheck in. It's like I'm going to invest money into these people. I appreciate

[00:39:19] what they're doing. And so we, you know, we bring lunch in every Monday. We have snacks

[00:39:24] and drinks in the office every day. We do a lot of pop up little, just little stuff. It

[00:39:29] shows a lot of appreciation. We do coffee, at least once or twice a week for the whole

[00:39:33] team. I mean, there's a lot of money that's spent, but there's a budget for it. And at

[00:39:38] the end of every year, right now this week, actually, I'm working on budgets for the new

[00:39:42] year. And I'll take collections, divide that out by whatever category. So we'll, our marketing

[00:39:48] budget, the same will take 7% of collections, figure out where all of it's going to go.

[00:39:53] Team appreciation, there's a budget for every little thing we do. I mean, down to the, you

[00:39:57] know, $1.25 per day, per office for snacks and drinks. So there's a, there's a math to it.

[00:40:03] There's a science to it. It's not just, I think people look at us and they're like,

[00:40:06] oh, they just spend money, you know, every day. There's no-

[00:40:09] It's calculated. Yeah. It is calculated. I mean, you can't afford for it not to be.

[00:40:13] You know, you're a big Simon Sinek guy? Yes.

[00:40:16] I mean, I think we all in this room kind of nerd out on personal development in some

[00:40:20] way, but the way I get, the way I got introduced to Simon Sinek was actually not one of his

[00:40:26] books. It was a, one of his first TED talks. I don't know if you've seen the golden circle.

[00:40:32] And like the whole premise of that is just people don't buy what you do. They buy why

[00:40:36] you do it. Right.

[00:40:38] And so I look at coming back to this word, and it's such a buzzword today, culture.

[00:40:43] It has a buzzword. And culture. It almost turns into like a, you know, woo, woo, woo

[00:40:49] It's all, you know, pow wow around the campfire and culture together. You know, drink kombucha

[00:40:55] or whatever, but it's could be cool, maybe. Which could be cool. Hey, I like, don't give

[00:40:59] me wrong. I like a kombucha and a campfire, but you know what I'm getting as a little

[00:41:02] kumbaya, you know, but it's something that you guys have not kumbaya. It's something

[00:41:09] that you really internalize and live by. And it makes me think like some of these people

[00:41:15] that live in areas with tons of people, right? We like our talent pool in Pensacola is small,

[00:41:22] very, very small. Right. You have to develop that talent. And so, you know, oh, I can't

[00:41:28] find people. I can't hire people. Everybody leaves me. And it's sometimes it just makes

[00:41:34] me think like, have you ever thought like maybe you're the problem? It's funny because

[00:41:39] it's not to be negative, but it's like you and Dr. Ben were so intentional about how

[00:41:44] you make your people feel and how they're treated. It's also a long game. People, if

[00:41:49] I had, if I could tell you how many times in the past year, I've heard you guys know

[00:41:53] Miranda Riley, our creative director and the amount of comments I get from our private

[00:41:59] clients like, Oh, she's a she's a unicorn. Where did you find her? She is, how do you

[00:42:04] even find someone like that? I'm like, I worked side by side with this girl for four

[00:42:09] and a half years to develop. Right. The characteristics that she has now, I don't, you can't find

[00:42:16] someone like that that knows how to do all the things out the gate. You can find someone

[00:42:20] that has an incredible personality that shows signs of being a great leader and being a

[00:42:26] self starter and just being someone that you don't have to hold her hand. And that's what

[00:42:32] we saw in her. And when I find someone like that, I don't want to stick them in one role.

[00:42:37] I want them to learn every aspect of the practice. And then that kind of person is the absolute

[00:42:43] best leader like to have in fundamentals to have someone like that that no matter what

[00:42:48] department is struggling. One of our clients could call her. She can walk them through

[00:42:52] the clinical issues. She can walk them through needing to create a PowerPoint. She can walk

[00:42:57] them through managerial issues HR issues. But it's a long game. You're not going to

[00:43:02] find someone like that and develop them in three months. Most people give up and don't

[00:43:06] have the patience to really put the time and energy into developing the leaders.

[00:43:10] Yeah. That is a great thing to talk about. Think about anything else besides like your

[00:43:17] practice. Think about a sports team. Tom Brady was not, you know, if you're looking

[00:43:23] at a list, he wasn't like, Oh, this is the guy I got to bring on my team. When he gets

[00:43:29] to New England, he's, you know, second or third string. What is he doing the whole time, you

[00:43:36] know, through high school, college, second string? He's training. He's watching film.

[00:43:41] He's getting developed. He's getting mentored when it's game time and first string got injured.

[00:43:46] He was ready. Now he by that time had become exceptional. But what if you were like looking

[00:43:52] at him in high school and never could see the mentorship or develop or development training

[00:44:00] that needed to happen, but we don't think about these other situations. We've got to

[00:44:06] think about, let's zoom out, how does the real world look? You know, if I bring somebody

[00:44:11] in as my stock trader, am I just going to throw them in and he's just going to be like making

[00:44:16] these big trades on wall street? No, he's going to be mentored. He's going to be trained.

[00:44:21] As small business owners, we just, we miss that. Nobody has the patience. And they don't

[00:44:26] want to invest the time and money into it. And to be honest, it is, it's a huge investment

[00:44:31] to take someone with zero experience and develop them into someone like Brittany's

[00:44:37] Boboda. Years. How many times we've flown her all around the country, taking her to

[00:44:42] different trainings and seminars. And, I mean, you, you don't just wake up with someone

[00:44:46] like that. Mm-hmm. She's a rock star. She's a rock star. shout out Brittany. We love you.

[00:44:50] Getting, couldn't make it through one day without her. I must think about our relationship,

[00:44:53] Luke. I don't know if you know how we met. I actually met Luke and Justin on a sales

[00:44:59] call. I was working at another agency. I don't think I knew that. It, which is weird because

[00:45:05] I feel like I know most of it all stories. Yeah. So there was a, well, we'll skip the

[00:45:09] long story. The short story is, but the sales call was bad, but I thought it was great,

[00:45:15] but he got the sale. He still tells me it's awful. And we were laughing at you and making

[00:45:19] fun of you and how terrible it was and like we had the card out. We thought we were getting,

[00:45:24] okay, the, the call we were getting on was framed was framed. It was framed. Oh, you need

[00:45:28] to make a payment. Let's put you on with hair. Here comes on the call, the whole dog and

[00:45:34] pony show. Right down three numbers. Sniffle line. I mean, but I, I think the important

[00:45:42] part here is we saw something in Harrison. That's what that's gonna. A lot of people

[00:45:46] don't have and a lot of people in high ticket sales are afraid to make the ask or make you

[00:45:52] feel uncomfortable or challenge you. He had that. So I instantly thought, oh, we just need

[00:45:58] to train him on our system. And you know, how long have you been here now for a half

[00:46:04] years? Sales is confidence. I mean, you, you're not going to get around that. We were, um,

[00:46:09] we were at a mutual clients practice in Ohio recently. And I mean, he's got, this guy's

[00:46:14] got some rock star TCs and they have grown, as you know, tremendously this year. And we're

[00:46:20] sitting in on a couple of consults and it was two, three, four in a row where his TCs

[00:46:24] are over $7,000 fee presentations. No one batting an eye. No discounts given. And same

[00:46:32] day start, same day start, same day start, same day start. I'm like on the fourth one

[00:46:36] with the over $7,000 fee, this girl same day starts. I'm like when people say it's impossible

[00:46:42] and like, please come and listen to this. And they had just left our TC empowerment course

[00:46:46] and we're doing the exact fee presentation that we teach. I'm like, this is not rocket

[00:46:50] science. People make this so hard. But at the end of the day, it comes down to the TCs

[00:46:55] confidence in what they're offering, the doctor's ability to get out of the way and let the TC

[00:47:02] do their job because these doctors are not salesman. They do not need to be in the room.

[00:47:06] They need to come in. They need to say hi. They need to, you know, look at the records,

[00:47:10] give them a treatment plan. Beautiful teeth. And get out. Let the TC do what they need

[00:47:14] to do. If you have a TC in the room that's not a salesman, you need to find a new TC.

[00:47:20] Because at the end of the day, that is the job. Nobody wants to say that, because it's

[00:47:23] not pretty. This is a medical industry. Well, I believe if you can't sell somebody, you

[00:47:28] can't help them. Sales, if we have the right perspective, I think sales, asterisk here,

[00:47:35] we're operating from a place of integrity. The product or service that we're pushing is

[00:47:41] going to make a positive impact for life. If those two things are not in alignment, this

[00:47:46] statement is off the table. But I say if those two things are in alignment, closing somebody

[00:47:50] down is actually the highest form of service you can give them. Because if I can't close

[00:47:55] you, I can't help you. Especially same day, save them the time.

[00:47:58] We saved you timing. But we train our team all the time. These people didn't fall out

[00:48:03] of the sky and land in your console room. They actually clicked on a link or called

[00:48:09] and made an appointment. They reached out to us in some way, shape or form. That tells

[00:48:16] me they want to be here. If they can start treatment and the doctor says, "Let's go

[00:48:21] ahead and move forward with treatment," there's no reason why they shouldn't start today.

[00:48:26] Unless the roadblocks are created by you. Unless the obstacles are thrown out there

[00:48:29] by the TC. I can tell you a hundred stories recently of TCs throwing out roadblocks. That's

[00:48:38] why we tell our TCs less is more. That's huge though because how many doctors do we

[00:48:42] know who go in and try and run the show? It's not about me, but 30 minutes later on

[00:48:49] explaining what I had. Would I still talk to him?

[00:48:51] Ephylophagridic. They wanted to song and dance. No, they didn't. No. Did you see their

[00:48:56] eyes glaze over and they completely do that?

[00:48:59] It's information overload. Now they're leaving because they can't even make a decision, which

[00:49:03] is what I would do in that situation as well.

[00:49:05] This feels more serious than I thought it was. I thought it was coming in for braces and

[00:49:08] colors today. Are we looking at x-rays? I think the way our TCs do it is so beautiful

[00:49:14] because they keep it so simple. We offer an affordable option from the gate. Out of the

[00:49:19] gate, this is what we do. They don't have to admit to us in front of their kid that

[00:49:24] they can't afford that down payment or that they can't afford to pay in full. We're not

[00:49:28] asking for that. We're asking for 300 down, 169 month. It's pretty easy.

[00:49:32] So let's wind it down with fish-buying fundamentals. For those listening, watching who may not

[00:49:38] know, I think most of them do know, but maybe they don't. What are you guys wanting to do

[00:49:43] with that? What are you offering? Because so many people contact us and they're like,

[00:49:47] "Hey, should we do a one-on-one? Should we do this type of training into the next

[00:49:51] course?" What's that look like? What's your kind of goal in vision?

[00:49:56] We started the course as a way to just streamline, you see an orthodontic practice that has

[00:50:02] extreme growth and everybody wants to see what they're doing. There's got to be some

[00:50:05] secret magic that there... It's probably a book we read and that's all it took right

[00:50:10] there. They want to know what that book is. Where do I get that book? The other part is

[00:50:14] nobody wants to read though, so that's funny. Tell them it was my book. There you go.

[00:50:20] We started the conference as a way to just streamline and make it a little less chaotic.

[00:50:26] I love order. Dr. Ben's a little more... You know, how is he funny? It's like, "Oh, yeah.

[00:50:35] We can do this. Sure, of course. We would have people show up to three different people

[00:50:38] in the same week. I'm like you said about your story when you went in the dental office

[00:50:41] and they weren't expecting you. We had multiple times where that happened. We're like, "Oh,

[00:50:46] I have no idea." We started the course. I think we've had 18 fully sold out courses

[00:50:52] at this point. I think we started it in 2017 or 2018. From there, we started the one-on-one

[00:50:58] program because the courses would fill up. We only offer three or four year and they

[00:51:03] fill up and people don't want to wait. Our next available date right now, we have a few

[00:51:07] left for August 24. Then after that, it's going to be our hip course in November. We

[00:51:14] started the one-on-one program, which is essentially very similar to the course, only it's a lot

[00:51:19] more one-on-one. Somebody comes in, they spend a full clinical day with us, whatever department

[00:51:24] they want. Then probably two years ago, we started offering virtual options, which are

[00:51:28] very popular now. We do a half-day, whatever department they want. It's always me and Miranda

[00:51:35] and then whatever other director over whatever department they want. Aside from those things,

[00:51:42] we also do private consulting. We reserve that for clients that have already been through

[00:51:47] one-on-one training in the conference. We are very selective with who we work with. We

[00:51:53] want people with certainly abundance mindset, growth mentality. I don't want to spend months

[00:51:59] working with someone who I would never work here. I'm like, "Okay, I'm not for you. I'm

[00:52:04] not for everyone and I'm certainly not for anyone that thinks that would never work

[00:52:08] here." Those are the things. I really want to work with people that have the mindset

[00:52:16] that are willing to get out of their own way, let their team do what needs to be done to

[00:52:21] grow this practice because you're not going to do it by yourself. I need your team to

[00:52:25] grow this practice. Typically, why people say that, it's not that they actually believe

[00:52:30] that. It's that it's making them uncomfortable. For sure. But growth happens when you're

[00:52:36] not my six-month-old, he's balling his eyes out because he's tea-thened on on his hand.

[00:52:42] He's not comfortable, but he's growing. He's healthy. Again, if you just zoom out and look

[00:52:48] at the way the world works, we need to sometimes be uncomfortable.

[00:52:53] We have a mutual client, Jesse Carmen in Ohio, love that guy. He came to Fundamentals. He

[00:52:58] brought his whole team. Then he came back. It was a month later for the TC course. You

[00:53:04] bring 15 people down to Florida, huge expense. That was a huge expense on his part. Only

[00:53:10] I think it was four weeks later was our TC-only event. He brought four more people down just

[00:53:14] for that. These same people had already been here a month before, but we had a TC-focused

[00:53:21] event. From that point, he leaves. They started working with you all. They had a massive

[00:53:27] amount of growth. We started working with him privately one-on-one. He's had an extreme

[00:53:32] amount of growth this year, but he was telling me last week, the reason this has worked so

[00:53:37] well is I told my team from day one, whatever Amanda and Miranda suggest, we're going to

[00:53:43] try it. We're going to try anything they suggest, because the worst case scenario, it doesn't

[00:53:49] work and we change it back. We're not doing brain surgery here. Let's try whatever they

[00:53:55] say. We made some hard changes with his team. We switched people into different departments.

[00:54:01] We changed their fees. We changed the entire process of their console. We developed a call

[00:54:07] center. There was a lot of things that were uncomfortable, but he was willing to get out

[00:54:13] of the way and see the big picture. It's tenfold for him. This guy is the limit.

[00:54:20] How can somebody get a hold of you guys who's interested in learning more?

[00:54:25] Fishfunfundamentals.com is our website, and then they can always email Miranda or Casey.

[00:54:30] She's Miranda@fishbondgroup.com, same casey@fishbondgroup.com. We have tons of people

[00:54:37] reach out with questions and we're always happy to answer things that we can via email.

[00:54:42] Happy to schedule calls with people.

[00:54:44] Awesome. Thanks for being here. I feel like we could talk all day. Maybe we could schedule

[00:54:51] a time even with Ben to come in and talk for hours. Thank you so much for your time.

[00:54:58] First, my pleasure. Thanks for inviting me.

[00:55:00] Thanks for listening. If you'd like to learn more about HIP, or any of the topics in this

[00:55:06] episode, send an email to hello@hipcreativeink.com that's hello@hipcreativeinc.com or jump over

[00:55:17] to our website at hip.agency.

[00:55:19] [music]

[00:55:24] [silence]

[00:55:31] [silence]

[00:55:38] [silence]

[00:55:45] [ Silence ]